Nassrallah's threats...
Nassrallah has just raised the stake; it is time to call his bluff…
He want a larger slice of the government and a veto power, well you know what, the other party in this country also have demands: We want a real president freely elected, and we want peace!!!
So if Nassrallah wants to demonstrate and surround the Government Palce until the government resigns, then we will march to the presidential palace and camp there until Lahoud “the usurper” goes home.
Nassrallah also stated that he cannot trust the 14th of March coalition to rule the country; we also cannot trust him with a veto power. For HA actions in the government have not been very reassuring, as for example when Bashar Assad insulted our Prime Minster Hezbollah minister walked out of the Ministerial session…
It would have been much better to have a real open dialogue, with a agenda that takes into consideration all the parties issues and misgivings, in order to find a compromise (such as changing the president and the government at the same time) Rather than issuing silly threats and pushing the country down a slide, that no one knows where it will end.
But it seems that Nassrallah is ignoring the fact that whether he likes it or no, there is a big part of the Lebanese who are sick of his wars, threats and rhetoric. And just want to live in peace, prosperity and most of all freedom.
posted by BOB @ 6:27 PM
64 Comments:
HEZBOLAH is the party of SATAN! and a cancerous TUMOR that lebanese have to CUT OUT AND THROW IN THE DEEPEST PIT! i hope this is the LAST STRAW for the lebanese people, who have to stand up and RUN THEM OUT! HASSAN NASSARALAH is the CHIEF DEMON who only wants WAR and STRIFE! he will NEVER allow peace for lebanon! that's why he shared out the BLOOD MONEY after the war! to buy back the souls of the victims they had caused in the first place!
buy the way... have they returned the two israeli soldiers as agreed?
i guess not! once a bastard always a bastard! GET RID OF NASSRALAH PEOPLE!
REDRIDINGHOOD
Please refrain from silly comments...
Either add something to the discussion or do not comment on my posts
Peace
having the Syrians or the american isn't good for anyone, hizbullah should disarm the majority of the Lebanese agrees on that.
hizbullah is becoming a threat for everybody because hes monopolizing the situation, and making Beirut boil. if hizbullah have demands. well i have one, I HAD ENOUGH! We HAD ENOUGH! The best strategy for a weak party is attacking and showing muscles , hizbullah is a real problem, if they want to be part of the political échiquier in Lebanon they should stop acting on their own and comply to what other are saying!
Ya bob,
a big part of the Lebanese
'fraid they're not that big enough to warrant the rule of Siniora and Hariri's gangs and the terror they spread through the ICKF - Internal Child-Killing Forces (i.e, ISF).
This government is on the American-Israeli payroll. And yes, that does not differ much from it being on the Syrian payroll (and stolen Lebanese funds). And if we are going to talk about usurpers, let us first talk about Hariri's assets, the billions of dollars of debt, where all the money went, who was collaborating with Syria without any subtractions of figures that you like or additions of figures that you dislike. Let us put all the war criminals on trial too, and hand out life sentences. Let us punish all those who failed to perform their duties (such as the tea-servers) and all those who ordered them not to do so. But your world view is painted by the dollars stolen by Hariri. Naturally, your rhetoric is reminiscent of Al Mustaqbal paper. By the way, I don't know what I would consider people (individuals, countries) who consider Al Mustaqbal a "newspaper". If anything, it shows the sad state of affairs that Lebanon has become submerged into.
khalsouna ba2a min hal 2ssa, how long do you expect to fool 4 million people with your "al haqiqa min ajl Lbnan"? Enough with thieves and warlords!
Governance is not about entertainment or leisure. If you think it is, maybe you should practice your beliefs in Zanzibar or something.
"I wish for peace in Lebanon and I believe that Hassan Nasrallah carries all those answers,(...), Hassan Nasrallah is doing it for Lebanon's benefit, so it can be it's own independent Lebanon."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Yes. An "independent" Lebanon freed with Iranian money.
W000, how sweet is that.
You think the Iranians give a flying fuck about the little Lebanese being able to live happily in peace and prosperity forever after?
Or are they doing this to increase their sphere of influence?
Nothing that America is not already doing, I do concede that.
However, don't come chanting about Nasrallah and Hezb being "liberators" when they would be NOTHING without their foreign funding. And all money comes with strings attached.
I would say HezbAllah is more of a liberator than any group inside Lebanon at this moment, or at any moment in Lebanon's history (Aoun's liberation movement when all the rest of the folks who are now barking against Syria had accepted Syrian occupation comes as second, I would say).
So, who are you (well, not YOU per se), and what have you done for Lebanon, other than whine about Iranian money, while being paid for your whining (from none other than KSA-Hariri-USA)?
Who is the hypocrite here?
Don't you just love the Lebanese political debate?
You're not allowed to have an anti-hezbollah view without AUTOMATICALLY being categorized as a "KSA-Hariri-USA" supporter.
Oh, and the fact that, for some, Hezb is "less worse" than the rest of what's on Lebanon's political menu doesn't mean it tastes good.
As long as the Lebanese are lousy cooks, they'll end up with more or less disgusting politicians.
I say, it's time to change what's on the menu instead of just passively taking whatever comes our way.
Now, "anarchist", you tell me what you are unhypocritically doing to help Lebanon.
I was raised to believe that the thing a citizen can do for his/her country is vote. Can't even do that in Lebanon. So what should we do? Go sit for hours in front of Virgin Megastore while pretending to be pseudo-revolutionaries? Praise and defend the political party of our choosing in social occasions?
Vomit anti-american diatribe to feel truly independent and sovereign?
You tell me!
You're not allowed to have an anti-hezbollah view without AUTOMATICALLY being categorized as a "KSA-Hariri-USA" supporter.
See? This is a fine case of hypocrisy. Tell that to the Hariri Movement - sorry, Future Movement - and its followers, for example.
Oh, and the fact that, for some, Hezb is "less worse" than the rest of what's on Lebanon's political menu doesn't mean it tastes good.
Actually I did not use the "less worse" scale, I used the much better scale, not that I consider the rest to be anywhere near ZERO, let alone in the positive range on the number scale.
As for what I am doing to help Lebanon, I am exposing the hypocrites and attempting to marginalize them - YES, marginalize them! Because what Lebanon needs is not dialogue, what Lebanon needs is true leaders who are committed to making Lebanon all that those crooks who spread the myth of national unity, claim to be making it - HARIRISTS INCLUDED (yes!).
You are right, there was nothing revolutionary in the yuppy movement called the "cedar revolution" (some call it potato revolution, others call it hummus revolution). It was orchestrated by the big powers, who felt that it was about time to replace Syrian occupation (yes, occupation! now I dare you to call me a pro-Syrian or Syrian agent, just DARE to do so!) with U.S hegemony and Saudi influence. When you have a bunch of idiots who praise themselves for liberating Lebanon by going to martyrs' square holding their respective parties' flags (and at the request of their leaders they came with Lebanese flags only) and chanting racist statements against Syrians, and even going around and killing poor Syrian workers, yes that is not a revolution! So do not glorify what is yet the biggest blot in Lebanese history. If you think there was anything revolutionary in the so-called protests, think twice, would these have taken place if it weren't in U.S interests to end Syrian occupation? It is one thing to be naive, it is another to go around and give your naivete an air of glory and god-sent truth.
I do not have a party, that is what makes me independent in my analysis. I see what is wrong, and I comment on it. I have criticized H.A on a number of occasions. I have criticized FPM on a number of occasions. I am neither a H.A supporter/member, nor a FPM member. But if one is to take this to a logical conclusion, one can say that H.A & FPM are better for Lebanon internally, and in organizing Lebanon's relations with foreign states. Not a bunch of kids who have inherited their dad's position, or a bunch of warlords who are supposed to be in prison, and who are now preaching us on anti-Syrianism when they collaborated with the Syrians for 15 years, YES, 15 YEARS! And these same people are printing pictures in their so-called newspapers about a SNAPSHOT of Aoun's facial expression when someone is shaking hands with an Israeli!!! And you expect these people to run a country? Oh for goodness' sake! These people can't even run a kindergarten!
Just a healthy dose of reality.
One question: Nassrallah isn't a warlord? He did not steal anything? Or maybe Aoun is innocent too...
Your problem is that i accept (I as in my opinion not anyone else) the some of the 14th of march stole, killed and what have you. But do you accept to say that about Hezbollah and Aoun...
untill you do i consider you biased, and not rational. I want to build a future ofr Lebanon not follow aa leader ANY LEADER like he is a Divine virgine that never committed a sin...
So for the time being let us try to keep the country from exploding and stop using the past to suit our intrests....
ALL OUR LEADERS KILLED AND STOLE AND KILLED AND KILLED so either you overthrow all of them or stop ring up the past every 5 min. I care about tomorow and what will happen not about yesterday!!! wake up and think about this nonsense you hear on TV and in newspapers, all newspapers... untill you accept this statment you are just a following blindly some leader who do not care about Lebanon...
well said, Bob.
"You think the Iranians give a flying fuck"
You are in dire need of a bar of soap in your mouth. A good sound soap scrubbing on that tongue of yours would do you a world of good.
As for your snotty behavior, no hope there as that one sentence describes your whole arena of mentality.
"Now, "anarchist", you tell me what you are unhypocritically doing to help Lebanon."
Well what are YOU doing besides spreading F words all over blogs? I suppose you think you are CLEVER?
Give us a list of all the great and wonderful things you are doing for Lebanon oh great warrior spirit!
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Yes. An "independent" Lebanon freed with Iranian money."
First don't cackle and don't open so wide. Too scary.
Second, I agree about Iran.
Damn those Iranians! They committed those massacres in Shatila and Sabra! Damn those Iranians! THey bombed Lebanon to smithereens in June 1982!
Damn those Iranians they killed our children in Qana 1 and 2!
Well Hell, the list is long when it comes to Iranian atrocities committed against Lebanon!
I say we wipe them off the face of the Map!
Wow.
You shouldn't use a keyboard while PMS-ing, Rhiannon sweetie, and I won't sink to your level by gratifying your stupid personal attacks with a response.
just one thing... Last time I checked, it was Lebanese hands that committed the Sabra and Chatila massacres. Granted with the Israeli support, but nobody Jedi-mind-tricked the Lebanese criminals to commit those atrocities.
Nassrallah isn't a warlord?
Well, if you have a special Hariri edition of the Oxford English dictionary, then maybe he might be.
What did Aoun steal?
What did HezbAllah steal?
Why is March 14 afraid of if it is true that Aoun & H.A stole (meaning that they can also open their files)?
So for the time being let us try to keep the country from exploding and stop using the past to suit our intrests....
Well then, we have differing views as to who is causing the explosion, the so-called majority, which is a minority and which insists that it will remain in power (despite absolute failures for a very long time, especially so during the war - I am talking about internal economic/relief issues not external ties and political positions; though politically it was also a huge failure)
ALL OUR LEADERS KILLED AND STOLE AND KILLED AND KILLED so either you overthrow all of them or stop ring up the past every 5 min.
I beg to differ. Not all leaders killed. That is not to say that the leaders who did not kill are faultless (no one is infallible); however, that some stole and others killed, and others did both, does not mean that all did. But just out of curiosity, I would like to know who you are referring to when you say "all" (I mean, which leaders would you add to my list?).
I care about tomorow and what will happen not about yesterday!!!
And how do you intend to make the future (sic) bright if you have the same people ruling (and stealing) and passing on their seats to their children?
Ah, but I don't watch TV (rarely, and only to catch live interviews with Nasrallah or some other important event - and during the war to follow the developments; and no, I do not consider the pseudo-Arabic speeches of Sa'ad el-Hariri interesting enough to waste my time with them), and I rarely waste my time with Lebanese newspapers (when I do, I read Al-Akhbar, and sometimes check out the stupidities of Al Mustaqbal - the last time I checked out Al Mustaqbal was when I heard about that photo of Aoun appearing in it - and the right-wing crap of Annahar, and the laughable conspiracy theories of Addiyar). Other than that, your accusation is pretty much off the markk.
الحكومة باكية if you get the pun ;-)
Calliwhateverwhatever,
It is well-documented that Israelis allowed, supported, AND TOOK PART IN the massacres at Sabra & Shatila.
It is well-documented that Israelis carpet bombed Beirut in 1982.
It is well-documented that Israelis held thousands of Lebanese at Al-Ansar & Al-Khiam, and systematically tortured them (not unlike the many Lebanese imprisoned & tortured by the Ba'athists).
It is well-documented that Israelis refused to give the minefield maps; the mines have killed tens and hundreds of Lebanese.
It is well-documented that Israel holds Lebanese prisoners, and it is also well-documented that the Lebanese government does not give a damn about them. It is well-documented that the Lebanese government has done nothing - absolutely nothing - to free them.
It is well-documented that Israel has been violating our airspace for the past how many years? (you tell me, since you are the expert on documentation). It is also well-documented that the Lebanese government, and army, did nothing to stop those violations, other than a couple weak statements and letters to Kofi Annan.
It is well-documented that Israel used uranium and phosphorous shells on civilians and residential areas and littered the south LEBANON (in case you forgot the south was as much part of this country as Mount Lebanon) with 1.2 million cluster bomblets.
It is well-documented that Israel deliberately targeted the UN compound in Qana in 1996; it is also well-documented that the Lebanese prime minister did nothing other than shed a couple of tears for those killed in Qana in 2006, and which he now claims saved Lebanon and earned it the ceasefire.
It is well-documented that the security forces served tea to the Israelis and dutifully lined up to show their IDs to the Israelis; it is also well-documented that the only people that the security forces are trained to fire on are 11 and 14-year-old kids.
Want me to continue? I hope you will get the hint, and spare me. ;-)
I guess you don't remember the war...
HA clashed several times with Amal and countless civilians were killed (the battle of the flag) ask some Beirut about it.
More? Aoun didn’t he bombe Beirut and kill innocent...
The war is over I don't like to bring it back so i'll stop here, just read your history and know that they ALL KILLED (and by all i mean all)
Now stealing, ask Aoun all those bags full of cash he took with him when he fled from Baabda presidential palace in his pyjamas, leaving his wife and daughters alone to be picked up by the Syrians…That was not stealing noooo, he did not steal 200 or 300 million no not at all
HA? Stealing! Ask about the electricity in the Dahia, ask about the international telecom centers in the Dahia, a 200 millions industry per year, prior to 2004!! What about all the smuggling through the border…
The problem is you cannot accept all this, even if you research them and find them true, while I can accept that 14th of March did what they did…
Bytheway Siniora accepted to have an international audit of the public spending.
And finally when you say not al leaders killed, please state who did not…
Way to go about a objective and serious newspaper in choosing Al akhbar!!! That is hilarious…
"anarchist"whateverwhatever
I am very impressed by your knowledge of facts.
It would be nice, however, if you could read what I write without adding things I did not say onto them.
My point was not to defend the Israelis and deny the fact that they have caused nothing but harm to Lebanon.
It was meant to highlight that some Lebanese were not just sitting there with their arms crossed when those massacres took place and it is too easy to put 100% of the blame on our waring enemy instead of looking at the share of blame that is ours. Nobody likes to feel that they've harbored murderous monsters.
So, yes, it may be well documented that Israel has done this, that and the other; but let's start documenting what the Lebanese have done too in order to clean some things up and move forward.
HA clashed several times with Amal and countless civilians were killed (the battle of the flag) ask some Beirut about it.
1. How does that make Nasrallah a warlord?
2. Actually it was Amal, supported by Syria, that started firing at HezbAllah, and it was Amal that collaborated with Israel in the case of Richard Higgins.
More? Aoun didn’t he bombe Beirut and kill innocent...
1. How does that make Aoun a warlord?
2. Whom did Aoun kill?
3. Against whom was Aoun fighting?
4. Who was against Aoun?
5. Who was against Aoun, and what is his past?
6. Who fought against the Syrian army to possibly prevent the occupation of Lebanon while the rest were licking Assad's boots?
The war is over I don't like to bring it back so i'll stop here, just read your history and know that they ALL KILLED (and by all i mean all)
Oh, not at all, let's bring it it all up. Answer my questions. How do the above sentences make Nasrallah & Aoun warlords?
Now stealing, ask Aoun all those bags full of cash he took with him when he fled from Baabda presidential palace in his pyjamas
Substantiate your claims, or give up on them!!! What bags of cash are you talking about? What are your sources? What, you read this in the archives of the Cham press? Strange how enemies become allies (or sources) in the strangest of times...
HA? Stealing! Ask about the electricity in the Dahia, ask about the international telecom centers in the Dahia, a 200 millions industry per year, prior to 2004!! What about all the smuggling through the border…
1. What smuggling? Arms smuggling is not tantamount to stealing.
2. Lama3loumatak, the electricity issue is not just in Dahiye, actually let me tell you something, there is INSTITUTIONALIZED theft of electricity, water, and other services, in Jabal Lbnen alone than in all the south, Bekaa, and Dahiye combined. How does individual theft and collectors' corruption entail H.A theft of electricity?
3. Again, unless you can prove that H.A has endorsed and institutionalized this theft, H.A's hands will be clean of it, as indeed they are.
The problem is you cannot accept all this, even if you research them and find them true, while I can accept that 14th of March did what they did…
There is no problem. I accept anything that is substantiated. Your claim that I cannot accept "all this" is misleading and malicious, not to mention fallacious. So get off your high horse.
Bytheway Siniora accepted to have an international audit of the public spending.
Are you kidding me? Siniora knows as well as I (and you) do that he and his Hariri gang must at all cost stop Aoun and his accountability-driven party from coming to power, in order to prevent undertaking any meaningful auditing project. What do you think all this is about? Why do you think they are so afraid of Aoun? If it were just about power, they could've followed Aoun rather than opposed him and visciously so. The people who are in a way following Aoun at the moment, Frangieh and gangs, are hoping (against hope) that their reward would be that their files would not be opened. However, this will not be the case. The Hariri gang are smarter than Frangieh I suppose, or Frangieh has no other choice but to stick to Aoun. Whatever the case, it is irrational to actually think that this government can ever or would ever undertake auditing the public spending. Is this the latest joke?
And finally when you say not al leaders killed, please state who did not…
Since you insisted that all leaders did kill, it is up to you to show, one by one, who did the killings, and against whom. Do enlighten us.
Way to go about a objective and serious newspaper in choosing Al akhbar!!! That is hilarious…
Never claimed it was objective. However, it is by far the most serious one, and anti-corruption oriented paper. I usually don't take the mark of success of something as a comparison between it and a joke of a newspaper; however, in this case I must, since all newspapers are pretty much jokes. And Al-Akhbar pretty much stands out as being the only one that has a dose (albeit light) of thoroughly researched articles and spot-on analyses. Of course, I don't expect your Haririst self to understand the value of researching. I mean, what do you expect from a newspaper staff that spends its time in digging out Aoun's past, to find SOMETHING - whatever it might be - against him?
It was meant to highlight that some Lebanese were not just sitting there with their arms crossed when those massacres took place and it is too easy to put 100% of the blame on our waring enemy instead of looking at the share of blame that is ours. Nobody likes to feel that they've harbored murderous monsters.
Oh, not at all, no one actualy said that the Lebanese did not take part in the killings. I am not a nationalist; nor do I subscribe to this myth that has been going around, that all our problems have to do with outsiders, be they Palestinians, Israelis, Syrians, Americans, Iranians, you name it. On the contrary, I am one of those who believes the primary cause of the 1958 and 1975-1990 wars (though the latter was divided into a number of stages) were internal/domestic, purely Lebanese (i.e. nothing to do with the Palestinians), and the other factors, i.e. Palestinian armed presence, Israeli intentions/motives, etc., were merely contributing/aggravating factors.
In fact, those who claim that the Palestinians were the reason the war erupted, might want to check their facts, and realize that until early 1976, the Palestinians had not taken part in the fighting, and their involvement was only the result of the overruning of the Palestinian camp at Karantina in January of 1976. The actual intention of the rightists in staging these attacks, was to show that the conflict was actually between Lebanese and Palestinians, not amongst Lebanese.
So, we do agree on at least one point; that we must document what the Lebanese have done; they have done the bidding of their leaders, and have followed their hate-filled instructions to the letter. The question is: why? I guess the simplest answer - certainly it is beyond the scope of this blog to conduct a thorough inquiry - is that the Lebanese differ on the most fundamental issues, that they have no consensus on national identity, no national consciousness, no national vision, no national loyalty (but rather sub-loyalties to sects, families, regions/areas). To say that we are united is a myth. Yes, some of us are united in times of crises (while others are not; there is always something that hinders real unity - and that is because there is no national identity, and because the unity that we witness every now and then is based on situational factors/circumstances), but this is not enough; the fact is, it is in the interest of the leaders/elite families/etc. (and the regional and extra-regional countries/states that wish to see Lebanon divided in order to pursue their own national - military, strategic, economic, territorial, etc. - interests) to hinder the development of a real secular, democratic, pluralistic state that goes beyond the old style of sectarian politics controlled by elites and prominent families. We are living in the 21st century and yet we are slaves to a feudal system! And we dare call ourselves a modernized society!!!
We can continue to keep this government, or we can choose to actually TRY - at least TRY - the other. If this government is indeed based on popular appeal, the failure of the other will surely allow it to return to power. Why all this fear?
I completely agree with you on the question of national unity, or lack thereof, and the Lebanese people's allegiance to all the wrong things.
The reason I would not be happy with a HA-run country is because, while they may be an answer to the end of feudalism in our politics, they won't be the end of confessionalism and sectarian politics.
You can't take that out of the Lebanese people overnight, unfortunately.
I want a "party of the People". Not a "party of God".
"just one thing... Last time I checked, it was Lebanese hands that committed the Sabra and Chatila massacres. Granted with the Israeli support, but nobody Jedi-mind-tricked the Lebanese criminals to commit those atrocities.'
OH-MY-GOD! IS THIS THE BRAIN OF A 12 YEAR OLD OR WHAT?
Did you guys hear something? I heard some sounds, like the ones made by an annoying mosquito...
The reason I would not be happy with a HA-run country is because, while they may be an answer to the end of feudalism in our politics, they won't be the end of confessionalism and sectarian politics.
It is not really logical to expect that the two would disappear simultaneously overnight. In fact, I would even go as far as saying that even FPM is not a secular party at all. But, and that's a big but, it is certainly much better than the corrupt people and feudal warlords who are currently running our affairs. Really, it is an insult to our intelligence that after all those years, these same people would be running, and ruining, our lives.
You want a party of the people - heh, why not join us lefties/commies? :D - sure, that's not a bad thing; but sidelining H.A, and its very large following, is asking for trouble. With the lack of a national identity - or an agreement on any form of identity that goes beyond sectarian following (for example, class identity) - you cannot really do this and expect no backlash... This is a recipe for conflict and violent clashes. A big no-no. The no-no is not because H.A has weapons or that these subsequently provide it with an unfair advantage in so far as they serve to blackmail (they have not so far, and they won't), it is for the simple fact that the more you try to marginalize them, the stronger and more radical they will become. As will their followers. You are then laying the stones for seccessionist demands. This might sound far-fetched, but studies have shown that in cases where parties (the case studies examine Islamist parties in particular) are given the chance to legally contest elections and have the chance of winning them (rather than having sham elections with pre-determined results), they tend to moderate themselves. HezbAllah before taking part in elections was definitely different than H.A taking part in elections. Now, if you don't want a party of god, that's fine, but what is your suggestion, how do you deal with this issue? You prevent H.A from having any chance of contesting the elections? You want to take the weapons away, but is that a logical sequence, given that the Palestinians are armed in and out of the camps, and no one is talking about them? Take the salafis in the north, what about them? The Palestinians are pretty much isolated from the clashes with Israel today, so if there is a need to disarm, the Palestinian weapons should be the first to go. Don't you agree? The salafis would have to be tackled simultaneously, I would say, before letting them grow too much. Your fear is misplaced. The fear is better-placed in relation to marginal groups with little following, which would have no reservations in using violence to achieve their aims, because they would face no repercussions as a group like H.A would.
:) This is ridiculous! But I will play along
So I will not say anything before YOU substantiate your claims about March the 14th coalition! With facts and hard evidence!!!!! And I need to see the evidence and touch them, after which I will send them to a special lab!! Please!!!!!
My definitions of warlord is simple a WAR LORD. Someone who was involved in civil war. Doesn't matter who started it (Amal, Syrians, aliens) I do not care! There is innocent blood on HA and Aoun's hands. Prey tell what is your definition of warlord and what makes Aoun or HA better than the rest. (Here i truly like the boot licking thing, oh the shame of Nassrallah giving rustom gazahli that Israeli machine gun! Now that is what I call boot licking or even brown nosing...)
Who Aoun killed? Again it seems that you do not want to believe what I say, so this seem useless. But I will just tell you this, when Aoun started his "Hareb al Tahrir" he bombed east Beirut innocent died, likewise in his war with Geagea, where many innocent died in west Beirut. Now if you do not like what I say it is you who have to bring prove that i am not correct!
PS: As you have not said anything about Aoun running in his pygis from Baabda, leaving his woman and children alone!!! Oh the courage!!!! Truly a leader to follow!
And check any newspaper from that day (Assafir will work best for your sensitivities) and learn about the great travel bags scandal, that followed his glorious retreat from the presidential place, leaving in addition to his family a whole army brigade to fight and die because he was in too much of a hurry to get on the radio and order them to surrender!!!!
Peace
I could write a hasty response, in fact, the above reply does not deserve more than that, but I will leave it for tomorrow. Now I must catch some sleep. So goodnight. :D
Bob: I don't mean to be rude on your post but I can't refrain from commenting anymore. I apologize in advance.
I am so sick of reading such discussions and comments. If I am anti-Hezbollah, people assume you're pro-american/israeli. ya 3alam enough!
Why can't I be Lebanese w bas? Why is it that if I am anti-Iran I am not patriotic?
Ya 3alam a lot of us don't trust Hezbollah. It's our right!
I think most of us are sick of wars and sick of living each day by it's day. Some of us would prefer planning our lives, being stable and growing.
Forget the war. Forget the past. Sit back, relax, breathe, and look ahead.
Think of how we will take this nation forward.
Create new jobs - we have great minds with no jobs in Lebanon. Lets stop our youth from immigration.
Fix the electricity!! Ma32ool in 2006 some areas dont get 12 hours of electricity a day! They should have it 24 hours a day!!!
Strengthen the army - we have the worst neighbors anyone can have, that's our curse. Build have the army.
Disarm everyone in Lebanon - why do they need their arms asesan??? Hezbollah couldnt stop a rocket from flying into Lebanon, and the Palestenians cant free their lands from their camps. Disarm EVERYONE.
And us the people.... we have a job too... stop following "leaders" like you're sheep. You pay these "leaders" to represent you, and when they fail, you fire them and replace them with more qualified representatives. They work for you, and not the other way round.
Regards,
No problem Ram, you are most welcome to comment anytime!!!
I am sick of those discussions as well, but i was draged into this one. If you notice i tried to say the same thing in my first comment, but somepeople just cannot acept the fact that every body stole/killed/...
Anyways i agree with what you said, and we should stop bringing up the past every time we have a discussion. It leads no where.
yalla peace
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
n10452minusSheba'afarms,
Habib 2albi, please revise your statement on "the Palestinians". There was no Palestinian hegemony in 1968. The real armed presence of Palestinians was after the massacre in Jordan in 1970. In fact, when in 1968 the israelis bombarded our airport, they did so IN RESPONSE TO THE SHOTS FIRED AT AN ISRAELI PLANE - guess where? In Athens. So please revise your history, and if some dude shot your neighbour's chicken with a hunting rifle, and happened to be Palestinian, this does not mean that "THE PALESTINIANS" were taking part in the fighting. Sheesh, are you the master of extrapolation..?
In 1976, you had camps all over the place and the situation was unbearable and resulted in several confrontations between Lebanese militias and Palestinians ( Tal El Zaatar, Karantina etc ..)
So, in 1976 you had camps, and before them you did not have camps? And what about the MILITIAS? I presume they armed because those camps existed? I wonder why you do not whine about the Armenian camps, and the naturalization of Armenians (which was for the sake of upholding the sectarian status quo)?
I dont understand people defending Palestinians in Lebanon and condemning Sabra & Chatilla without even mentioning the dozens of massacres those thugs did.
Whereas for you the two are mutually exclusive, for me it is not. I am not defending anyone based on their national/ethnic/religious/sectarian belonging. I am not defending, period. I do not base the debates I take part in on defending one or the other against one or the other. I mention facts, you reply to these facts by referring to other facts (and often myths), in an attempt to convince that one is worse than the other, or that one explains/justifies the other. What the heck. Get over your complexes, really, and stop spreading your bigoted views based on things (Damour, etc.) that no one is denying and no one can deny. And spare us the fallacies!!! Let us also mention that the major (but by no means the only) faction that committed the Damour massacre were Libyan mercenaries.
This is a pathetic statement .. Even Jazeera War of Lebanon, a pro-Palestinian documentary doesnt put the responsability on Rightists.
I am sorry my friend, but I do not care about pro-Palestinian or pro-anyone documentaries. I care about research and scholarly citations (you are right in that the documentary is biased). What you did not get right, however, is that the documentary is not based on very academic sources, and so, anything it says, including its biased positions on the Palestinians are to be taken not as a certainty but at least with some doubt and subsequent inquiry.
he just became one after the latest war and the 'civilized' way he assasinated Israeli agents with, not to mention the harrassements that took place in Christian villages.
What Israeli agents? What assassinations? What harrassments? Have you been watching too much LBC?
What bombings are you referring to?
As for "terrorist", define it, please.
Aoun turned the ministry of defense into a torture place?
Aoun killed LFers?
What were LFers (I'll answer: gangsters), and what was Aoun's constitutional position?
Aoun was fighting for presidency, first against Palestinians, then against Syrians, then against LF, then again against Syrians and Americans and French.
Aoun was licking Syria's ass before anyone started doing so.
You realize that you have just contradicted yourself, don't you? :-)
And Aoun did not steal ?? lol
Can you really prove that anyone stole in Lebanon if so ?
Do you have proof ? show me ..
Of course we have proof. We have proof that many, many stole, that includes Murr btw, and Hariri, and Junblatt!! Not to mention Nayla Muawwad, Siniora. Just naming a few!! Or were you not following the news when these were talked about? Did you not see the cheques given out? And what do you take us for, idiots? Where did all the money that was supposed to go to the resettlement of the displaced people go?? into junblatt's pocket by any chance? Must increase taymur's fortunes, I guess.
Not just arms smuggling, drugs as well.
Heh, actually, this is not true. But there was the whole fake viagra pills issue in the States. That might be true. Anyway, nothing to do with smuggling. ;-) By the way, you do realize that Lebanon has no need for smuggling drugs? ;)
Well there is a large proportion that does not even pay the bills in Da7ye and Hezbollah regions, and HA doesnt mind, this is called stealing.
It is not HezbAllah's job/responsibility..... walaw, you forgot? if what you say is true, what about the non-Hezbollah regions, chief among them mount Lebanon? I know what I am talking about, the upper-class families here even don't pay for electricity, are you kidding me? So if it is H.A's responsibility (??) to ensure that ALL are paying, would you not say that they should also send people to Mount Lebanon to force people to pay and stop stealing? Did you know, one day the authorities came to check the water installations in a building, and a fight broke out after it was discovered that the 3ayar was installed without authorization and without any payment of bills?
Everytime Aoun opened the accountability issue, Hariri accepted and Aoun stopped mentioning it. Aoun has too many files and cannot afford opening such an issue, or else he would organized demonstrations for it trust me.
When/where did Hariri accept? Please show me an article, something, when Hariri accepted such a thing. Thank you. ;-)
As for organizing demos, tawwel belak. ;-)
How did u figure that out after only few months of its launch ? Or is it because it is attacking the government and 14th of march leaders that it is a good paper ?
I determine a paper's worth not from its "politics", but from its track record. So far, so good for Al-Akhbar. If it starts showing signs of Mustaqbalization or Addiyarization, sure, I'll join your anti-Al-Akhbar chorus. But not before/until then.
As for NewTV, frankly, the most preferred news channel for me is AlManar. Anyway, if I watch TV, I don't watch just one channel, I usually try to catch the stuff said on most channels. But you must understand that when a news session becomes all about presenting Geagea's catechism, or Sa'ad Hariri's calls for "al haqiqa min ajl lubnan", there's a point at which you get bored and don't feel inclined to check those channels out. Too predictable. That said, NewTV is becoming slowly LBC-ized in the quality of its programs. Bottom line, I don't care, I don't watch TV! I don't have the time to listen to the bickering of a bunch of warlords, where the news of the day is usually something like, Frangieh threw an ashtray at Hariri. I'm beginning to think that the Lebanese think they are still in kindergarten. This is getting more and more hilarious. And disgusting.
Btw, have you booked your shares in OTV? ;-D
just to be sure:
whom did salim 7oss killed ya bob..
(despite his failing political performance for some)..?
when you wanna state something, don't go to generalizations or it will weaken ur position..
no not all politicians are warlords..
(btw, i have to say saad is not a warlord, he is dumb who is cooperating with warlords but he is not considered one.. this is just for ur "double standards" expected comment ;) )
anarchist,
agree on 80% on what u r saying..
Hilal, why 80% specifically? :D Please elaborate, if you would like of course. :D I am curious about the non-arbitrariness of that percentage. :D
khayyedh shoo baddak a7san men heik.. inno leizim tkoon 99.99%.. el2ana3a kanz ya zalameh..
i don't watch almnar tv or news . I just listen to hasan nasrallah speeches on web when he has an interview of course to see what will HA's strategy be in the near future.. I guess u were being sarcastic since you stated that you don't watch tv (same here by the way- away from local tvs and it is better).
the discussion is very widened and I can't pick the things I disagree with u about any more :P
ok.. let it be 85%.. mnee7 heik..?
part of my opinion is illustrated in the link shown below.... I guess u agree on , let's say 90%? ;)
http://lebanonheartblogs.blogspot.com/2006/10/thoughts.html
So I will not say anything before YOU substantiate your claims about March the 14th coalition! With facts and hard evidence!!!!! And I need to see the evidence and touch them, after which I will send them to a special lab!! Please!!!!!
No, not please, Mr. Bob, the claims about March 14-ites are very well substantiated, all you have to do is read about our national debt. Unless you are a believer in the theory that the green creatures from Mars came and took the green papers to put them in a green soup, where did the money go? And where did Hariri's unexplainable extraordinary increase in assets and wealth come from? At any rate, tawell belak 3layna ya3ni, ba3d bakkir, al mustaqbalu amamuna if you get the pun. :)
My definitions of warlord is simple a WAR LORD. Someone who was involved in civil war.
My dear, when was Nasrallah involved in a civil war? Do you realize that not all the years of 1975-1990 were CIVIL war?
Prey tell what is your definition of warlord and what makes Aoun or HA better than the rest.
First of all, as I said, what makes H.A a bunch of "warlords"? Second, have you seen the scholarly definition of warlord? Third, how is Aoun, who was the leader of the army, a "warlord"? So are you saying that if a nutcase group of Lebanese form an armed comedy group and start "innocently" firing at the army to make us laugh (I know, it's only supposed to be innocently funny when the LF does it, I guess), and when the army kills those innocent clowns who think it's funny that they are hiding in civilian areas, the army leader is a warlord? Anyway, indiscriminate bombings are wrong no matter what, but how does that make Aoun a warlord? Please elaborate.
(Here i truly like the boot licking thing, oh the shame of Nassrallah giving rustom gazahli that Israeli machine gun! Now that is what I call boot licking or even brown nosing...)
First of all, HezbAllah was as constrained by Syrian occupation and Syrian mukhabarat as any of the groups. Recall the shooting events of 94, can you honestly tell me that there was a real tie of brotherhood between the leaders of the two groups? One cannot really say the same for the Hariri, Inc., can one? Here you have a guy and a whole circle around him, collaborating with the Syrians and even coordinating with them on the means of stealing money and hindering development projects and taking over properties and pocketing the money. THE PEOPLE'S MONEY.
Who Aoun killed? Again it seems that you do not want to believe what I say, so this seem useless. But I will just tell you this, when Aoun started his "Hareb al Tahrir" he bombed east Beirut innocent died, likewise in his war with Geagea, where many innocent died in west Beirut. Now if you do not like what I say it is you who have to bring prove that i am not correct!
Who told you this? The people of east Beirut died by Aoun's bombs? Funny, I presume you checked the sources of these bombs? By the way, I used to live in east Beirut. Did you?
PS: As you have not said anything about Aoun running in his pygis from Baabda, leaving his woman and children alone!!! Oh the courage!!!! Truly a leader to follow!
Unlike you, I do not espouse the feudal outdated concepts of man-the-protector and woman-the-protected. It might well be that Aoun does espouse it, but if you have a point to make, I would suggest that you would not try to score a cheap shot, because that's a really lousy way of driving your point home. ;)
And check any newspaper from that day (Assafir will work best for your sensitivities) and learn about the great travel bags scandal, that followed his glorious retreat from the presidential place, leaving in addition to his family a whole army brigade to fight and die because he was in too much of a hurry to get on the radio and order them to surrender!!!!
His travel bags? Scandal? Money bags? So, you expected the guy to leave the country naked, or at most with the clothes on his back? I presume you actually looked into those - first money bags, now travel bags - and have photographic evidence that the bags were full of the 'green stuff'? As for the army, the army actually refused to stop the fight, with or without him!! That's the concept of army you should want, as a nationalist. But I realize that this does not appeal to those who would warmly welcome invaders and even bet on them, for the sake of maintaining their sliding grip on power.
khayyedh shoo baddak a7san men heik.. inno leizim tkoon 99.99%..
Lah lah... I didn't say I wanted more.
1) I was being sarcastic;
2) I was actually curious to hear what points you disagreed with me on!
I realize I have a crude sense of sarcasm sometimes. So take it easy will you! :D
Hilal, I will give you 80%. How about that? Fair deal? :D I guess I agree with most of what you are saying in that post, but I would also say that I am not quite sure about the simplistic explanations that have led to these conclusions.
[Rabie_Halad] “We all wish for that. However you are living in a dream world...you can't just fix the electricity when you have a 30 billion dollar debt, you can't pay great minds for jobs they deserve with a 30 million dollar debt, you can't do anything with an enemy sitting there on your shoulders throwing dirty water into you land. It's not that simple.”
I absolutely agree. 100%.
Imagine what Lebanon would be – the kind of economy it would have had today without the massacres and other atrocities ‘israel’ subjects her to, PAST and present. I don’t believe anyone here is NOT interesting in looking to the future.
Bob, who is dragging you into discussions you don’t want to be in?
What posts are silly to you? Redridinghood or badwolf?
I would certainly hope that ridinghood is "silly" to you -BUT-
That first post is indicative of how extremely dangerous the ‘christian’zionist movement is. They are part of the reason why Lebanon suffered in July/Aug. and the ‘christian’ Zionist movement are one of the very good reasons why Palestine and Iraq suffer – YESTERDAY and today.
Stop bringing up the past?
The past IS today. What has happened in past years have actually been FORESHADOWED EVENTS OF THE FUTURE.
Besides, you are complaining to the wrong people.
Tell the USA and ‘israel’ to STOP bringing up the PAST. They have a vicious and most fatal way of reminiscing.
Anarchist
I am so sorry that I even dared to question Nassrallah’s or Aoun’s integrity, they are without a doubt the most honest, clean, bloodless leader Lebanon has ever had. You are 100% right in blaming everything on 14th of March. Again I deeply apologize and I think that once we are out of the government everything will be OK.
I am just curious about your way of discussing, do you realize that you doubt everything I say and demand evidence (photos, articles and what have you) while you speak and speak and speak without giving a shred of evidence???
How can you even claim that you are objective when you said that you almost only watch Al Manar and read Al Akhbar, how can you have any unbiased opinion of what is happening or what happened…
I wish you all the best and I hope that you get to live in a country ruled by Aoun and Nassrallah very soon!!!
PS: can you just tell me how can you call yourself leftist while you claim to favor a theocratic, conservative party! Pretty interesting twist of principles…
Hilal
Hoss killed (figuratively) by not doing anything, and not by opposing the Syrians when he should have. At one point or another they all held responsibility for the death, and for the theft.
Again to move forward one must leave the past alone, the war ended and so should all its horrors…
I am just curious about your way of discussing, do you realize that you doubt everything I say and demand evidence (photos, articles and what have you) while you speak and speak and speak without giving a shred of evidence???
Well then, I guess you are doubting our $40 billion debt? That means that all those who have in fact admitted it exists were lying? Some big conspiracy it must be. Second, you want proof, go and check the cheques written out by Siniora and gangs during the war, what the heck, these guys wrote cheques from a freaking restaurant. Seriously, who orders food for refugees from a freaking restaurant? This is only one case. The evidence is out there. However, I am yet to see a shred of evidence of what you are saying, the so-called money bags, and so on. An article in a newspaper is not enough. Just like an article in a newspaper is not enough to prove that Siniora wrote those cheques. Get it?
How can you even claim that you are objective when you said that you almost only watch Al Manar and read Al Akhbar, how can you have any unbiased opinion of what is happening or what happened…
What does objectivism have anything to do with what I watch? I have a common sense and logic, thank you very much! I can judge what I hear and set propaganda/unbased assertions and truth apart! Also, as I said, I do not base my grasp of developments on these stations/papers. I read many sources, compare them, and analyze them.
PS: can you just tell me how can you call yourself leftist while you claim to favor a theocratic, conservative party! Pretty interesting twist of principles…
1. I do not consider myself a "leftist".
2. I do not favour any party in so far as it does not push forward - directly or indirectly - the principles I believe in and espouse.
3. I do not favour any conservative party (but I repeat myself).
4. I do not even favour the limited, restricting concept of national identity; I am in favour of the elimination of all borders and states. However, this does not mean that I would not favour one party over another. Unfortunately I do not own a magic potion that would just cause those leaders to drop dead and the borders and petty divisions between peoples to be nullified; utopia is one thing, reality is another. So, if I deem H.A as more conducive to the implementation (at some point down the road) of the issues that I believe would bring about more positive developments in the right direction, then yes, I would say that I favour H.A over, say, Hariri, Inc. (anyway, I would favour almost anything over the capitalist thieves inc.) Keep in mind that all this does not mean that I am not objective in my ANALYSES. Unlike most people, I know where to draw the line between my beliefs/principles, and analyses. In fact, this a point on which I often criticize my Marxist friend; he tries to give everything a Marxist interpretation, when there is no class element to it. This is not a good trend to emulate. It is not scholarly.
You got that right, minus the Shebaa until Hezbollah's masters, the Syrians give us the paper and recognize it legally.
So, you were also going to ask the Israelis for such a paper recognizing the border, to have your 10425 ? ;)
You start 1976 and now you are back to 1970.
I did not start with 1976; I said the first instance of organized Palestinian participation in violence was after 1976. We can go all the way back to 1958 and even 1948 if you want. I have no problem with dates, nor do I have a selective memory, like some, for whom history starts on July 12. ;)
Palestinians were already in Lebanon before the 1970, They moved on a permanent basis to Lebanon once they were massacred by the Jordanian army.
The armed factions did, as did the leadership of the armed Palestinian resistance. This is the first time the Palestinians actually had an organized ARMED existence in the country with a leadership that would represent them - or at least claim to represent them.
This agreement could have have been signed without any Palestinian influence or even hegemony.
Wrong. Fact of the matter is, even as early as 1958, with inter-sectarian hatred beginning to boil, the Palestinians elicited the sympathy of a large segment of Leb. society, the majority of them being underprivileged/poor Muslims, who often co-existed in/around the camps w/ the Palestinians.
As for the incident in 1968, let me remind you who was controlling the airport back then, and let me remind you how every war Israel launched against Lebanon was against Palestinians or armed groups threatening its security but never wanted to invade Lebanon.
1. What does the control of the airport have anything to do with what happened in Athens?? What does Lebanon have anything to do with what happened in Athens? Enlighten me.
2. No, not every war Israel has launched has been against Palestinians, nor has it been against armed groups "threatening" its security. Actually, the concept of threat to security is a very subjective one, and one cannot base an argument on such a wide assertion. The least you'd have to do is go over, in detail, the definition of threat, the definition of security, whether these groups pose security threats, and whether these threats justify such reaction. If they do not justify such reaction, the action would not be justified (though even if it is justifiable, it would still be illegitimate). This is just an example.
Yes there were no camps
Are you for real? The Palestinian camps existed since 1948-1950... Where do you get your weed from?
You talk about condeming both, yet you defend Palestinians by saying those were Libyan mercenaries ???
Shou baddi 2ellak, ya3ni, please read what I said, do you need eyeglasses? Here, I repeat what I said, and if you had read well and not jumped the gun, you could've spared yourself the copy-paste job :D Here's what I said: the major (but by no means the only) faction. Wallahi, some good weed you are smoking, mate!
No i got the pictures by mail like everyone in Lebanon did, on how Hezbollah were executing supposebly Israeli agents.
Oh, you mean the ones that are allegedly taking place in Aita el-Sha'ab. Dakhlak? What did our beloved unifil say? have they seen any armed and uniformed Hezbullahis around? Since you love the UNIFIL so much. Hek su2al. :)
Define what ? i have a whole research on the terrorist acts Palestinians did in Lebanon, from hijacking planes to bombing planes and buildings and cars and assasinating people etc etc..
Is that terrorist enough for you ?
Lek kiddo, if your memory is fried because of smoking too much weed, mine isn't. We were talking about HezbAllah, not the Palestinians. Yalla, enlighten me.
Aoun was appointed head of temporary goverment responsible of organizing presidential elections within 3 to 6 months.
Walaw? Elections when armed militias were going around and practicing taxation and instituting their state within a state (look who's complaining about H.A now!)? Walaw, you don't even know the rules ?
He used to torture LFers and innocent civilians and killed many of them in his prisons in the Ministry of Defence and Kfarchima.
"Hakim" told you that? And you believe him like you believe and glorify his medical title?
No i did not contradict myself, you are trying to be funny thats all.
Me trying to be funny? Nah, I don't think I can compete with you. No matter how much I try, my funnyness - deliberate or otherwise - will always pale in comparison to yours (and "hakim"'s).
Syria was the only way to get him to presidency and he kept on visiting it and licking its ass and Syria kept refusing him, so he launched a war against her.
Walla? 7elo. Where's the road to damascus? Maybe I can borrow the map from hakim, and if he left it in the prison cell which he was supposed to be rotting in right now, maybe he can hand me his coalition buddies' maps. Eh?
Show me those proves and i ll show you Aoun's checks.
Just to give one example, Liban Lait. I am sure you can find about the "controversy" in the papers (look up Oct. 2006 issues). Or if your memory is so weak that you can't remember that one, shou 2awlak n7ki 3an 3ammo Samir Skaff and the FM? Hek, taza.
How would u know what Lebanon needs or not ? There is a huge traffic of drugs and weapons going on .
Oh, trust me. I KNOW. The traffic is at any rate not one of import of drugs, more like, export ;) 3al7eltein, where is the government, what is it doing in this case? oh sorry, busy sending ICKF (internal child-killing forces) to kill 11 and 14-year olds (or alternatively to serve tea). wl balad meshi. :D W 7akimna ba3do 3ambyetfalsaf. Eh, khalliyon yetfalsafo, lal taleta. ;)
Mmm, yes, I watch Al-Manar, better than watching the Daily Hakim Catechism on LBC. Btw, aren't you supposed to respect your fellow (Muslim) Lebanese, after all they are your allies (even if you guys don't share visions of who Lebanon belongs to) ?
Anarchist said:
"You want a party of the people - heh, why not join us lefties/commies? :D"
Then "1. I do not consider myself a "leftist"."
Wow you lost me there? Care to elaborate?*
*i m sure you will say it was a joke... lame excuse...
And why are you still speaking about Hariri Inc responsibility i conceded that all Lebanon woes and problems were only caused by them (and of course not by the syrians who stole countless billions or Hezbollah with its recurring wars 93, 96 and 2006 that cost more than 15 billion) And what a compelling piece of evidence about Hariri Inc stealing money! I was speechless your proofs rocks!! you should bring them to court!!
Khalas I think you should kill us all, everyone in the 14th of March coalition, and maybe then you can turn Lebanon into a dream land, much like Iran and Syria...
Peace
"Hilal
Hoss killed (figuratively) by not doing anything, and not by opposing the Syrians when he should have. At one point or another they all held responsibility for the death, and for the theft.
"
bob,
it's even poetry or politics.. decide. following ur logic we conclude that martyr rafic hariri killed many.. of course figuratively..
thus (following ur logic) I don't know if we can call rafic hariri a "martyr" anymore...
correction:
either instead of even
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n10452,
I'll copy paste again my comment to remind you what i was discussing here:
"just to be sure:
whom did salim 7oss killed ya bob..
(despite his failing political performance for some)..?
when you wanna state something, don't go to generalizations or it will weaken ur position..
no not all politicians are warlords..
(btw, i have to say saad is not a warlord, he is dumb who is cooperating with warlords but he is not considered one..)"
so, we were discussing if he is being a warlard or not.
that's all..
on another issue, the debt was not initiated between 1998 and 2000, you know that for sure, no? ;)
last thing, i find it hilarious that you come out with the murr example.. as if I care about that freak..
why did you come out with that? beacuse u read my post about Aoun and you wanted to remind me that murr is his ally? if that is the case, i'll just consider the whole issue an LF-allergy :)
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Wow you lost me there? Care to elaborate?*
I don't know if I care to elaborate, given that you are now focusing on irrelevancies rather than replying to my factual, historical assertions, but hey, I will reply anyway. You should learn the basics of English language. I said, "us". I did not say "me", hence, I am referring to a wider group of people, with whom USUALLY us ANARCHISTS are placed (in the rhetoric of those who do not know much about anarchism anyway). At any rate, in so far as this categorization is widespread, I used it. Also note that I did not mention Marxists, Trotskyists, Leninists, who are separate and do not always consider themselves bona fide communists. Way to go, champ. You managed to ignore the rest of the replies and find something - going with the al-Mustaqbal philosophy in searching desperately for something to attack Aoun on (I would say that if they had not been so obsessed with that, they would've actually seen the reality in front of their eyes, and criticized Aoun in a legitimate manner) - to attack me on.
And why are you still speaking about Hariri Inc responsibility i conceded that all Lebanon woes and problems were only caused by them (and of course not by the syrians who stole countless billions or Hezbollah with its recurring wars 93, 96 and 2006 that cost more than 15 billion)
7elo, "we" are now so desperate that we are comparing 93, 96, and 2006. Enno, part the south was not occupied until 2000. I mean, who considers the south part of Lebanon anyway, right? A couple of villages less, a couple of villages more, what difference will it make (but don't touch Marwaheen) ? ;)
Once i have the paper from Syrians that it is Lebanese, i can negociate with Israelies on those farms and i will do so, and since the UN is there already, it will be easier to resolve the problem the same way they are resolving the borders issues now.
I was not referring to the farms 7abibi. I was referring to the border. The border is more than just about the farms. Funny, I did not see you ask for a signed paper from Israel for the part of Al-Ghajar that falls into Lebanon, etc.
Leftist groups started arming Palestinians and 'defending' their Cause, not to mention the Abdl Nasser influence that caused a revolution against Camille
Which "leftist" groups might those be? Actually you have it wrong, the "rightists" insist the Palestinians were arming the "leftists". Bas iza sa7i7 enno el yassariyye 3atouwon sle7 etc., this proves my point, that the Palestinians were only a tool to further aims and not the real cause. ;)
Dont give me that false propaganda about underprivileged poor Muslims wou ma7roumeen and imperialistic Maronites ... i am sorry but no one buys this crap anymore ..
Lah ya zalame, I believe in it 100%. Btw, no one is saying the Maronites were imperialistic (do you even know the meaning of it?) It is a fact that most Muslims were poor (especially so the Shi'ites), and most Maronites were middle-class or upper-class, and that most development projects were accorded to Mount Lebanon by the government, and that the central government was full of corruption and favoured Mount Lebanon to the rest of the regions. It is also a fact that during the war the Shi'ites *gasp* were against the Palestinian actions; however, that did not let them be blinded that what Israel was doing against Lebanese was a justified, legitimate response. Something that those who jump on the July war-critics bandwagon ought to take lessons from.
As for Palestinians, they got armed and were moving freely all over Lebanon setting checkpoints and causing problems, acts that generated a reaction from the Christian community
The Christian community's (assuming it was one monolithic bloc, which you were denying when referring to the "poor Muslims vs. well-to-do Christians" issue) reaction was to the Israeli raids, not to the Palestinians, and these raids were meant to do exactly that : create a wedge between the Palestinians and Lebanese. The right, led by Christian groupings, was looking for the opportunity to portray its inter-Lebanese (i.e. anti-Muslim) conflict aspirations as Lebanese-Palestinian clashes. This is why they attacked the camps. Ya3ni, darouri 3allmak tarikhak kamen?
Back to Israeli invasions of Lebanon, if we handled Palestinians like Jordanians did, and we handled Hezbullah and didnt allow it to arm itself, give me one valid reason for why Israel would have attacked us.
Eh, ba3tik 1000 reason kamena. Quiz time: what happened in London, which "provoked" the Israeli invasion? And who was it done by? And what did that guy have to do with Lebanon? What does the firing of shots at an Israeli plane in Athens have to do with Beirut Airport? Unless you know something in the basics of logic that I don't. In which case, enlighten me, ya 7akimist.
Well, Hezbollah ran out of business with Israel now, and is selling his weed to the Lebanese for cheaper prices.
Since you are so sure of this, why not tip off the government so they would crack down on H.A? Isn't this what they would want most?
It happened during war before UNIFIL came, and it was an uncivilized barbaric act which i find more than normal coming from such a militia.
Dont change the subject and accept the fact that this was unacceptable.
Ah, happened during the war before UNIFIL came, walla, so those guys came out in full daylight in Aita el-Sha'ab of all places while Israelis were flying their drones all over the place and dropping missiles all over the place, and they were busy lynching those "collaborators", and there were tens of civilians out on the streets while the bombs were being dropped, and these civilians were taking pics with their cellphones, eh? Wa7yetak post the pictures. :D Who is changing the subject?
Looks like u r losing it, calm down my friend i know it feels bad to be proven wrong that many times, the weed and kiddo arguments r not gonna irritate me, am used to such desperate replies. In fact, u r provingme right now by starting to talk nonsense and losing it. Thank you.
Yii, 3an jad? I quote you, my winning friend: "Even if Nasrallah cannot be considered a war lord, he just became one after the latest war and the 'civilized' way he assasinated Israeli agents with, not to mention the harrassements that took place in Christian villages. As for Hezbollah, it was a terrorist organization during the war and participated very actively throughout hijacking planes and bombings. "
Haha, again diverting from the question and losing it. How come you didnt mention weed here ?
I am not diverting the question. How can you have elections when there are militias around, or did we also forget the Syrians that you so despised that you did not care about them being in the country and influencing elections (by the way, doesn't that mean that it would've been acceptable to hold elections when Syria was here?)? You're saying we're living in Afghanistan or Palestine? 3an jadd so "civilized" of those who claim Lebanon is the home of "civilizations". I personally like the legacy of the Phoenician civilization: the fishing boats part of our navy fleet. ;)
No i read testimonies from people who were there, and i saw videos and articles about this. Its ironic though how u managed to turn it into an LF-Hakim argument. Stick to the topic.
Testimonies from people who were there, awesome, names please! And where can I find those testimonies that you read? My dear, I am in no need of "LF-Hakim" arguments. The saying goes, I will let their actions do the talking; unfortunately their victims can't.
Well i can show you the same for Aoun and you wouldnt believe it
Waiting.
you ll never be able to prove anything that way and so its pointless to accuse one party and not the other.
Wallah, actually it was proven. The guy was framed, and the FM was exposed for its dirty tactics. Yalla, mention how/when/where Aoun did something like that.
It wasnt the police who killed those kids, and u know that
Eh, we all know. Walaw? They committed suicide. Or they were shot by their parents for eating too much chocolate. Funny, I only saw the ISF sustain "stick & stone" injuries, really proves that those protestors had guns and grenades. We also know what happened in 7ayy el sellom.
Eh, yeslam hal government wlo. They brought us 15,000 UNIFIL. Ba3d ken na2esna 15,000 unifil. eh, iza kammalou hek with their economic policies (theft and corruption) among other things, the 15,000 unifil is all that will remain for them to rule over.
HezbAllah is troubling the security? Assuming you saw the culprit who launched those Inergas? Funny, you blame the failure of the security forces on H.A. So, when H.A is disarmed, who are you going to blame? This government feeds on H.A's arms. But the solution is not to disarm H.A, but to topple this government, because disarming H.A while leaving the Palestinians armed in & out of camps is doing what we did not do before the civil war. In other words, the Palestinians at no point before the war were the ONLY armed group (other than the army). Fa if you want to set the precedent for some unknown recipe that is being cooked in Riyadh or Tel Aviv or Damascus or Washington, I don't.
I happen to watch almost all TVs and dont stick to one and get brainwashed.
E BRRRRRRRRRAAAAVO BRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAVO (recognize that?) I have seen people who watch all stations and are more brainwashed than the brainwahsed (as they say, more papal than the pope, or more Ba'athist than the Ba'ath, or more criminal than the Hakim ;) )
We both agree that Lebanon comes first, something Hezbollah doesnt even care about.
Is that why you are willing for an all-out attackon Syria, handing Lebanon to USA as its logistics base for regime change there? 2awlak this doesn't encourage the idea of Lebanon as a legitimate battlefield for regional wars/interests? We all know what you are cooking. Frankly we've tasted it once, and can say that the hakim is one lousy chef. The same goes for Junblatt, Hariri, & co.
n10452minusShebaaAndSecurityZone,
So now you are talking in the name of Anarchists ?? Why do you guys an organization or something ? i thought u were un-organized by principle.
Where was I talking in the name of anarchists? Where did you see me refer to an organization?
I dont see the point of ur history lessons here, i didnt ask for them.
Khalas don't worry about it, you don't have to pay for them. ;-)
You say it was freed, i say it was invaded by Hezbollah. You cannot free your country if u r backed by another country invading u .. and a lot of the villages in the South were unhappy with Hezbollah's coming.
Invaded by HezbAllah, what a nice concept. Is this some kind of Martian logic? Moreover, what does this Martian law of yours say about the so-called "freedom fighters" of the SLA? Weren't they backed by another country that had invaded Lebanon? Oh sorry, that doesn't count as invasion, does it?
The government asked the Syrians to draw the borders, yet they refused. UNIFIL & the UN took care of the problem of Al Ghajar village without kidnapping soldiers and starting a war.
Eh, and the UN also took its freedom to submit to Israeli demands that the Misgav 'Am settlement, which had deliberately been expanded into Lebanon, be included completely in Israel. Funny, I didn't see them asking Israel for a paper to prove that it was theirs. So much for your 10,452, eh?
Where did the rightists insist that Palestinians were arming leftists ?
Oh, they were. They continue to perpetuate that myth. That myth is also talked about by many scholars, check out for example Theodor Hanf.
Palestinians had their own plans in mind and Leftists were just helping them out, but were never controlling them, in fact they lost control until Syrians came and put the Palestinians back in the camps, and not by a Christian demand as some people say.
So how does this prove that the Palestinians had hegemony over Lebanese affairs in 1968?
By the way, the Syrians were invited by the Christians. Yes, yes, and yes. Not even your 7akim would deny that.
As for Shiites being ma7roumeen,
Hezbollah and Amal have been stealing the government for 15 years now, yet i havent seen Da7yeh becoming prosperous or the South getting any better, on the contrary i see more poor people and less educated ones ( even though Berri is building them schools) and they still claim they are ma7roumeen.
What a bigot you are. First of all, we are talking about 1975 and prior to that even. What does that have anything to do with Berri/Amal or HezbAllah? Moreover, are you implying that the Shi'ites have a "natural inclination" to poverty and illiteracy? I must say, you have some really nice teachers/masters, the same ones who were teaching your 7akim and his buddies before him torture techniques and different killing methods. Oh, by the way, the South without HezbAllah would've been the same as it was in 1920. Remember, if you want to get rid of a problem (let's say H.A) successfully, you attack not the problem, but the roots of the problem (the government). But since all your 7akim cares about is power and money, and his "Mount Lebanon", and does not consider the south (other than the Christian-populated areas) important or worthy of attention, I am not surprised that he has joined the March 14 gang. I mean, they say he did not have a choice back in the Ta'ef era, now he has no choice in the March 14 era. Does this guy ever have a choice? Poor victim of circumstances. :)
I believe this is becoming a community problem, not a government responsability, as if they wish to remain that way and keep nagging and claiming they are poor.
Walaw let Hezbollah pay them, or does he prefer to keep them that way so he can brainwash and controls them better ?
Yeah, HezbAllah is paying them, I guess that is the best equation, eh? I mean, as long as your leader(s) get to steal and bathe in honey and milk, it is ok after all if H.A (which is allegedly the problem, and not just a scapegoat of the so-called March 14) replaces the state and does what the state has failed to do (why whine about a state within a state, then?), after all, it is not the government's responsibility, because they "choose" to be poor. But since you are such a great expert on Shi'ite affairs, one question: where can I sign up for this "I choose to be poor" campaign? It sounds tempting. ;)
Lol, thats a new conspiracy i havent heard of .. which anarchist historian told u this stuff ?? is that the Lebanese history u r talking about ?
I do not base my knowledge on anarchists solely, like you base yours on what 7akim and his satellites say. For starters, I recommend that you look into Halim Barakat's "The Social Context". When you are done with that, let me know, I will provide more citations.
You didnt give me any convincing reason for Israel to 'invade' Lebanon.
A convincing reason for Israel to invade (no, not in quotations, unless you consider Israel & Lebanon one and the same thing) Lebanon? I am telling you that when H.A did not exist, and there was no provocation from Lebanese territory, Israel used an event that took place in Athens, to bomb Beirut airport. And then it used an event that took place in London, to invade Lebanon. What part of that can you not understand? Your historical knowledge is constrained by what your 7akim has told you. Maybe enlargen your sphere of interests outside of Bcharre.
Because the government is avoiding military confrontation and is acting wisely and asking him to disarm, but time will come.
Walla? What explains the raml el-3ali episode, then?
It is not a matter of weed only, wait till the international tribunal is established and see how involved Hezbollah was.
Waiting. But I am too impatient. Since you know beyond a doubt of H.A involvement, why not name us some of those who were complicit?
This is what happened and the pictures are true and Hezbollah admitted assasinating Israeli agents during war. I will glady post those pictures again.
Yalla, post them, I am waiting. And where did H.A admit assassinating Israeli agents?
I dont advise u to go there, but if u insist simply check few testimonies posted on www.aoun.info
and u ll see what i was talking about.
Some of those people i met personally.
Great, we base our entire theories and theses on something that some people have posted on the web? Is there a book printed on this issue? Is there scholarly research carried out? Have there been studies (historical, material) of these so-called tortures? Unless you are saying the whole world is conspiring against you. Oh how poor you are!
What happened in 7ayy el Sellom ? who destroyed the wizara ? who was shooting at the police ?
I notice you conveniently ignored the raml el-3ali episode. I am still waiting for your proofs that the protestors opened fire on the ISF, or that THEY were the ones who killed those kids. As for 7ayy el sellom, you tell me, WHAT HAPPENED indeed? Who shot at whom? Who provoked whom? Who tried to violate people's rights to demonstrate? Who was killed? And how does the death toll reflect your story? You are living in fairy-tale land, wake up and smell the Hummus.
So lets see whats wrong with UNIFIl now ?
Oh, nothing at all. Absolutely nothing. Just waiting for the UNIFIL to act on the Israeli violations of the airspace. ;-)
Hezbollah is troubling the security by being there as an armed group.
And the Palestinians and Salafis aren't. Oh, sorry, that's part of the recipe for another plate.
All those groups launching inergas and causing problems hide in the Hezbollah regions, and the truck that killed Hariri most probably came from a Hezbollah protected region. The solution is disarming Hezbollah and all the Lebanese as well. Palestinians are controlled in their camps by the army.
"Most probably". Yeah, some credibility there.
What we are cooking ?? Who started the war and turned it into a regional conflict ??
Which war? What regional conflict? The July war? Indeed, who started it? My timeline says, Israel did. My timeline also does not start from July 12, but even if it does, the conclusion does not change.
Who is backed militarily by Iran and Syria and is executing their orders ?
Executing their orders? Come on, stop it with the street politics talk. You know as well as I do that there is not an ounce of validity to these preposterous claims. Just because USA says so does not mean it is true. In fact, arguably one can say the same for the March 14 executing the U.S-Israeli-Saudi orders. How is that any different?
Hakim is one lousy chef , is that what you concluded ?
No, that was not the conclusion. That was the premise. And a very valid & sound one at that. ;-)
I believe someone got angry...poor anarchist...
Meanwhile could you teach me English please!!! as for example I always thought that (I) falls under (we) and (us) but you have another grammar, so please tell us (when I say (us) then I am included in that, you know it is my wired English that I learned in Hariri's oxford dictionary, silly me)
Now about answering you deep and relevant points, I told you I give up, I really no longer care. As you can't even accept that HA and Aoun holds some tiny responsibility in the killings and theft, so I have nothing to say to you.
Just know that whether you like it or no, we (I consider myself included in this we, I m still using my wired English!!!!) make up a large percentage of Lebanese (pick a number from 40 to 60%, it doesn't matter) and you have to learn to live with us.
However as you have not commented anything about starting to kill us, then I think you favor this solution. Yalla we are waiting for your angry anarchist death squads!!
Hilal
My mistake!!! I should not have even discussed the issue, as you might know I was referring to "our leaders" and Hoss is certainly not a leader, he is barley a mediocre civil servant...
I believe someone got angry...poor anarchist...
Heh, not at all. The change in the name has nothing to do with the current discussion. Rather, it is a variant of Prof. As'ad Abu Khalil's "Angry Arab".
Meanwhile could you teach me English please!!! as for example I always thought that (I) falls under (we) and (us) but you have another grammar, so please tell us (when I say (us) then I am included in that, you know it is my wired English that I learned in Hariri's oxford dictionary, silly me)
Did you actually read what I wrote? Because if you had, you would've realized that I left out a large chunk of "ist"s because most people would not understand them, and would only understand the standard terms "leftist" and "communist". Also, the reference "us" is to a group of people, who are referred to as leftists, this does not mean that each and every individual would identify strictly as a leftist (hence me leaving out the more relevant terminology). Sheesh.
Now about answering you deep and relevant points, I told you I give up, I really no longer care.
Well, that's your choice. However, I welcome your input.
As you can't even accept that HA and Aoun holds some tiny responsibility in the killings and theft, so I have nothing to say to you.
First of all, did you even read my replies? If you had, you would've realized that I already said that indiscriminate bombings are wrong, whoever does it. If Aoun did it, he was wrong to do it, and guilty as charged. As for the theft, that's a different issue altogether, and neither Aoun nor Nasrallah are guilty of it. Unless you have some new information, in which case I would love to hear them.
Just know that whether you like it or no, we (I consider myself included in this we, I m still using my wired English!!!!) make up a large percentage of Lebanese (pick a number from 40 to 60%, it doesn't matter) and you have to learn to live with us.
Uh, actually, look who is talking. I welcome co-existence with all sorts of people of all opinions; I do not wish to silence anyone, and I don't just talk, I also walk the talk. For example, I reply to all points raised, especially ones I disagree with, one by one. If I missed a point in my replies, please let me know. However, if by that you mean that I will accept your hegemony and authority, then you can forget about it. As for death squads, well, Lebanon is neither Saddam's nor Bush's Iraq, nor is it KSA. But if we are to let the cooks do their work in Lebanon, it probably will be...
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oh bob,
you believe that here are "our leaders"..?
anyway, u can runway from the questions as u want.. but that doesn't mean that ur generalizations are accurate at all..
correction:
there instead of here.
حسن نصرالله, الذي يمثل هذه الايام مع لحود, حصان طروادة الايراني السوري,
Rabie
I hope your comment was not about Anarchist, the people (angry or otherwise) if it was, you have to apologize or I will delete your comment and every other comment you will make on my posts!!!
I might disagree with anarchist but no one will be insulted on my post!!!
Anarchist
What I do not like about having a discussion with you is the fact that you doubt every thing I say and treat me like I am lying, even more you consider me part of future movement, you are wrong on both accounts. And if there is not a minimal amount of trust between us arguing is useless. I can just do like you do and proclaim that all what you said are lies until you bring hard evidence!
You might want to learn that in journalism the burden of proof does not fall upon the writer, but upon the detractor. In other words you have to bring proof that what I said, in the first place, is wrong!
Peace
Rabie_halad, Hilal, and Anarchist make some very good points.
Otherwise, I wouldn't bother reading this blog.
I never claimed the SLA freed the South, but i insist that Hezbollah were 'invadors' as well since they were not an independant entity but directly controlled from Syria & Iran and the last war was the clear proof of that, and Syrians were invading Lebanon back then in case you missed that and still did not go out completly.
Again, being supported materially (or otherwise) by outside forces does not make a group INDIGENOUS to the land, invaders. Unless 7akim has issued The Hakim's Oxford English Dictionary and I am not aware of it.
I havent read much about this issue but the government would have mentioned and reported to the UN if there was a mistake done.
The government was the one doing the back-and-forth "negotiation" with the UN on the delineation of the border (actually, the blue line is NOT an international border). The government bowed to the decision to exclude the part of Lebanese territory that was "devoured" by that settlement; the UN indeed admits (check out the statement by Miklos Pinther) that the UN did not divide the settlement like it divided Al-Ghajar because that would've caused a political disaster FOR BARAK IN ISRAEL.
I havent read his book yet but i ll check it out, why dont u explain his theory shortly since u read it ?
He talks about many things; I cannot summarize them here, but he discusses the causes of the war in Lebanon. The book is called "Coexistence in wartime Lebanon: decline of a state and rise of a nation".
Palestinians were massively present militarily and pressuring the Lebanese communities everywhere they were settled. The situation started being unbearable in the early 70s leading to regroupements of Christian militias and battles against camps.
Untrue. Not factual information. Please read history. History is not about writing something the way you want it to be told. It is the way things happened.
facharit, Pr.Chamoun and Bashir Gemayel completly opposed this invitation and internal fights in The Kataeb political council arose cause of that.
Tzakkar the War on Achrafieh in 1978, the Christians were targetted and the Lebanese Front, so spare me the false theories, and where again did Hakim accept that fact?
What does what I said have to do with the Kata'eb? Officially, who invited the Syrians?
Funny how you turn everything into Hakim and the LF, but i wont be dragged into such low talks, i ll let everyone see how desperate and silly ur answers are.
Poor Hakim, poor LF, always oppressed. Aren't you a Hakimist to death? I am telling you what your leader has said and/or not denied, since you would jump off the balcony (or kill on I.D) if he tells you to... so, shouldn't I?
In any country in the world, the government cannot fix its problems normally if it cannot control all its territory, if it has an armed militia ready to start a regional war at any time.
Yeah, nice justification. So, why is it unable to fix the problems in the territory it controls? We're not talking about the south and the Beqaa halla2, we're talking about Beirut. Where is the government? Why are those Inergas being thrown around, who is responsible for these? Why aren't the culprits caught? Is it because they have no control over Da7iye? PLEASE ya 3ayni, don't let me count the things that the government can do and didn't do. So, tell me, is it really because of the armed presence that the government CANNOT do these things (and if so, how? please show the correlation), or is it that the government CANNOT do these things so it blames the armed presence, which it is not willing to remove (shou 2awlak nballesh ma3 el Falastiniyye, eh? Why hold your left ear with your right hand?), so it has found the perfect scapegoat to put all the blame of its failures on, indefinitely (at least as indefinite as they wish their rule would be)? Bas 3ambet3ajjab enno kif w lesh hal 2adde mahwousin bi sle7 el mo2awame w mesh 3atlin hamm el sle7 el Falastinee, dakhlak ento ma kento a3de2 el Falastiniyye min awwal yom? Fa shou sar, l2iyto gher wa7ad tnettoo 3leh? Walla, shi gharib.
The Roots of the problem is Hezbollah and its a fact. As for the rest of ur answer, useless meaningless attacks ... i am an LFer yet i dont follow blindly my leaders and i critisize them anytime they do mistakes, not idolize them and believe God sent us a victory .. lol what a joke.
Iza hek, start "criticizing" your war criminal "leader". Or is that out of bounds? Oh, as for the God-sent victory, maybe you're too young to remember the slogans and mottoes of the war.
As for the Shiites, i dont know what their problem is but its definitly not the government.
Way to go champ. You dismiss even the POSSIBILITY that the government could be responsible, without even knowing what the problem is.
It is unacceptable to have a birth rate in Shiite regions greater than the poorest African countries in the world.
Eh, that would upset the "delicate sectarian balance". 3ayb, walla 3ayb.
Dont they have schools ? unis ? electricity ? computers ? TVs?
I didnt say they chose to be poor, but i dont understand why they are still in that situation ... i am really curious to know .. you have money to get thousands of rockets and train soldiers but you still have 10 kids per family with half of them not finishing school ?
First of all, since you claim to have such detailed stats and sure of their accuracy, you also ought to know more. Can you at least share with us ignorant people the source of your stats? Hopefully it doesn't come from the 7akim. :D As for the rockets, etc., first of all, what does that have to do with what the GOVERNMENT should be doing? Since you guys are all against the state within a state, ought you not be providing everything the state provides, including social services, education, etc., so that there would be no need and no justification for the development of a state within a state? Second, H.A already provides the most basic social services, and more. Something the government does not want to do. Again, where is the government, and who is preventing it from providing these basic services?
Lol, yeah yeah keep bringing Hakim into everything :P , Israel attacked Lebanon during war to get rid of Palestinian guerillas ...
Oh, yeah, the Palestinian guerillas. That's why the Litani figures so much in Zionist politics and rhetoric (since the 1900s!), that's why an event in Athens and an event in London "provoked" Israel to bomb the Beirut airport and invade Lebanon, respectively. That's why Israel stayed in Lebanon till 2000, and don't give me the "yes, they stayed because H.A was threatening them". H.A was a direct result of the Israeli presence in Lebanon. Talk about reverse logic.
hal2ad 2ahrak el Hakim wou Bsharre ? why dont u go to Bsharre and mock them ? or u know how to mock people behind ur screen ?
Me going to Bcharre to mock them? Maybe they should come to me and beg me to go there, to give them more significance by miles, than they deserve.
Why dont u show up to a blogger's meeting and say those to my face ?
Got no problem with that, in fact I did not know about the meeting until it had taken place... But your words give me a funny feeling: are you threatening me? If so, I suggest that you first know who you are talking to. But I will help you out; your threats are meaningless. Heck, even acting on those threats would be meaningless. I'll tell you what, kiddo, why don't you look up what the Black Bloc is, and what their shared belief is?
Dont worry Brammertz will name some for you, unless Hezbollah makes up a deal with the government to get away with it.
Nice "catch" clause.
I ll be glad too .. just check the LF blog www.ouwet.com in few hours time.
And? Don't forget my question, too: "And where did H.A admit assassinating Israeli agents?"
Those were posted in newspapers and in Massira magazine and tortures against the LF during Syrian time were published in SOLID report. NO one wants to come back to Aoun times and sue him, the 2 men shook hands and put the past behind.
Massira magazine? Isn't that a subsidy of the LF? :D That's like saying Basshar el Assad published proof of American responsibility for the assassination of Hariri in Al-Baath. :D
Its funny how you ask about stories without developping them .. u tell me what happened since u insist on blaming it on the ISF.
A bunch of Hariri militiamen (ISF) came and demanded that the "illegal" construction be halted. The residents started protesting, to which the ISF responded by firing live ammunition. Easy as 1-2-3 (and the resulting situation is pretty much the same as what happened in 7ayy el sellom). Go check the reports, and the findings of the autopsies.
They were acting and everyone already asked Israel to stop
Acting? You are one funny dude. Everyone asked Israel to stop. And did Israel stop? That is the question.
Diplomacy is the key to resolve the issues and it will happen as soon as Hezbollah gets disarmed.
Keep dreaming, buddy buddy. H.A will not be disarmed until your 7akim is in jail, until the Palestinians and salafis are disarmed, and until the army is able to do what H.A did on the battlefield (so that you would not talk to me about the destruction - because if we're going to assess victory on the battlefield in terms of destruction, the Germany probably won WWII :D ) in the 33 days of war.
Remember the 1701 asks for the disarment of Hezbollah too, and i do believe Israel will stop its violations once we disarm Hezbollah, and even before.
1) It is none of Israel's business what we do with H.A; 2) Where does 1701 ask for the disarmament of H.A?
Of course they are, but nothing compared to Hezbollah.
In what way? Yeah, they cannot be compared; true. They are not Lebanese.
So, the traditional enemies of the Palestinians (nothing to do with the weapons in most cases, but with outright racism and bigotry) now want a Lebanese group (resistance) to disarm before the Palestinian militias. Expect the unexpected. Courtesy of Hakim. :D
I am not sure, i dont claim to be 100% true but i have read reports and heard opinions from trusted people about it.
Heard reports. And OPINIONS on the van having come from "H.A regions"? Some nice logic there...
How did Israel start it ? kidnapped 2 soldiers ?
More like, kidnapped many civilians from inside Lebanon. These would not have returned home if it hadn't been for a similar CAPTURE (not kidnapping - how can you kidnap SOLDIERS?) in 2000. As for the consideration of the "kidnapping" as a valid justification for the war, that's similar to saying that Jesus Christ killed himself. :D
Hahahah, so Hezbollah is an independant entity ? True this is why War was started days before the UN meeting on the Iranian issue.
Do you even know how the decision-making process works in H.A, other than what your 7akim and his masters in USA tell him? Do you know, for example, the extent to which the Faqih can exercise political authority over Shi'ites outside of the boundaries of the Islamic state (in this case Iran), and the difference between the Wilayat al-Faqih and the Iranian government?
Well its ur opinion and i respect it, but a large group of Lebanese dont think so, so deal with it :P
A large group, yeah. Very large indeed. Anyway, the size of the group is irrelevant (note that this does not mean that I agree with your placement of support for 7akim in this "large group") in so far as ignorance is the norm within that group; so, they might not think he is a lousy chef cooking us nothing but disasters and mass-murders, but that does not mean he is not so. As they say, history is a witness. A history that he would "rather not talk about, because it's personal". Personal, yeah.. tell that to his very impersonal victims.
Anarchist
when you want to make a point just go ahead and say it, do not ask question and then wait for others to answer them.
for example if you knew to what extent the faquieh has control over Shiite (that follow him) go ahead and say it. Because frankly asking question that way only muddles your point. and it is very condescending and annoying.
And to answer your question (just this time) yes i know to what point and my source are (in the path of hezbollah; and Hezbollah by quassem) and i will just do like you do and stop here without providing any explanation...
And bytheway you failed to abide by your own rules, you did not provide any source that verify what you said, so i can just ignore them out of hand, like you do to everybody's argument...
peace
Rabie
My mistake, but still please do not use swear words...
Thx
Bob,
Believe me, it is not my intention to sound condescending, though I realize that my persistence and point-by-poitn replies might be annoying for many. ;)
Referring to the Wilayat al-Faqih, of course I know the answer. However, I want to make sure that the other person does too. If he does not (which would only be discovered by asking the question rather than directly posting the answer), then it means he should not talk about that and state arguments and make assertions based on a lack of knowledge. But you do have a point, I forgot to say, "if yes, then WHAT is the difference?" :) May I also add that Qassem's and Hamzeh's books do not really provide a very thorough discussion/understanding of the Wilayat el Faqih.
Verify what I said? I already named more than one source. You also want me to quote?? It is up to you to go and look them up. Why blame me if you can't/won't?
Buying weapons from other countries does not imply being allied with them, and the LF did not ally with Israel, and Bashir from the start made it clear who the 'devil' was.
We needed weapons and training and Israel was the only place around, but Bash's plan was never to work with Israelis against Lebanese and Hakim had no relation whatsoever with Israel when he took over, so once again get ur facts right and stop spreading lies.
First, who was talking about LF? (we were talking about SLA, and the SLA vs H.A "comparison" - they can't be compared) Second, ya khayyi, go learn your own history. Go learn about how the Gemayels were on contact with the Israelis, and they were not the only ones. There was also Edde, and some clerics. "hakim" had no relations with Israel?!?? Eh walla, some history he has re-written for you.
Barak ??
Yes, you know, that funny-looking short dude, the architect of the withdrawal from Lebanon. Some history for you.
If a christian invited the Syrians, that doesnt mean Christians invited them, the Christians were represented in the Lebanese Front who was opposed to the Syrians.
Really? Show me how the Christians were represented by the Lebanese Front. Was there a referendum? Elections? Ironically, the Lebanese Front, and later the LF, both claimed they represented Christians, but stole, forcefully collected taxes, and we all know how the ending goes. Your 7akim, if he has learned anything from the war, should just retire from politics because he should realize that other than the few who support his militia's history of killing-on-ID, he will not have any support.
i have principles and a cause i believe in and am committed to a political line inspired from the LF manifesto.
Principles like ? Supporting killing, based on ethnicity/religion/etc.?
We got rid of the Syrians only one year ago, but their agents within the institutions and armed groups and most importantly their puppets in Lebanon are still operating, and given that Lahoud wont sign any new appointement in the security forces, the government is facing a serious problem 'cleaning' the institutions and the " 2ossm el ma3loumet" that was issued lately is doing a great job in strenghening the security, however having an armed militia and loose armed groups 'hiding' in the Hezbollah regions is troubling the security and causing many incidents.
Ya 3ayni... eh, khedo wa2tkon ya3ni. el balad meshi... Yeah, easy when you have a scapegoat. Ironic that you are talking about collaborators with Syria in the forces, when you are allies with the biggest collaborator(s) with Syria in Lebanon's history. How does that go? Cleaning institutions 2al.................. loose armed groups hiding in H.A regions, ya 7abibi, if you know all these for sure, and it's more than we know, then doesn't that mean that the problem with the ability to prevent these rockets from being fired around Beirut is not that serious? Thanks for contradicting yourself. ;)
Palestinians are controlled within the camps, except the few groups outside the camp that are still causing problems.
Controlled? Tell me how they are controlled.
Eh, why not "clean up" those "few groups"? Ah I see, they are not the problem. Who said so? The security forces. The same security forces who are infiltrated by Syrian collaborators. The security sources know that those "few groups" are not a threat. The security forces know that these groups will not launch a rocket at Israel and bring upon us another July war (since you insist on stressing on this)? The security forces know this much, but they don't know who's launching Inergas. Impressive.
And Syrian groups hiding in H.A "regions"? Lama3loometak, there are Syrian groups not hiding in H.A regions, w ba3d ma sheft 7ada lift a finger to do anything about them. W kamen fi Palestinian groups, bas hawdol mannnon threat to our security (i guess the Syrians are now the 1968(??) Palestinians, and the Palestinians are... mashi.. sayreen Lebneniyye aktar men munasiri Hizbullah :D ) israeli-american groups, running the government and security forces. They served tea a couple of months back to their masters. Ba3dna natreen action against them. wlbalad meshi. w shou hal balad wlo. bijannen. eh, mberi7 my car went over one of those pot-holes on the road, one among a million potholes I mean... fa bi7e22elli a state-within-a-state? i'm sure i can get a lot of sponsors from countries, and they won't be iran & syria...)
No i do remember them but God never sent us victories.
Ah, but he did. Shu, nsina? Heaven was watching over Ain el Rummaneh? Talk about divine protection :D
i am asking u to join us to have a civilized talk instead of throwing accusations and mocking others behind ur screen.
Next time, hopefully. My screen is not something I hide behind.
Those were testimonies given by the people who were there.
Likewise, al-Baath will come up with names and people who were (allegedly) "there".
the autopsy showed bullets not originating from the ISF guns. Residents were not protesting peacefully and some ended up firing at the police.
This is what happens when you watch LBC. The autopsy showed that the ammunition came from ISF and was not of the "explosive" type (and evidence from the crime scene also shows that more than 1000 rounds from various weapons that the ISF and darak carry, were fired). For more, check out Al-Akhbar, Oct. 9, 2006, including a copy of the autopsy report, an X-ray picture, and pictures from the crime scene. By the way, according to your logic (in referring to the allegations of torture by Aoun), we don't even need an autopsy, because we have the testimonies of people who were there (witnesses).
It asks for applyingthe 1559 which asks for Hezbollah disarment.
Where does 1559 ask for the disarmament of HezbAllah?
By the way, it also asks for the implementation of Ta'ef, which says that the Resistance can and will remain so long as Lebanese land (according to what Lebanon defines it) is occupied. What does this mean? That 1701 is contradictory. Anyway, nowhere does it say H.A should be disarmed. Where does it say that?
It was an Iranian decision and a Syrian supported one that made HA start a war.
Proof, please.
History is indeed a witness and proved Hakim's cause to be a right one after 11 years of jail.
"hakim"'s cause was one of murder of those who did not agree with him, and who threatened (directly or indirectly) his quest/thirst for power. If "hakim" had not embarked on his so-called god-sent cause, we would've all been spared 15 years of Syrian occupation. So the hakim better go become a monk and atone for his sins, which brought upon us 15 years of occupation, many killings, kidnappings, oppression, and suppression. Now he has the face to actually get on TV and talk, wallahi he is the most despised figure in Lebanon's history (other than Ariel Sharon and probably beating Olmert& Peretz by a small margin). That says enough, I guess.
Anyway, it seems you are uninterested in a factual discussion. I rest my case.
Anarchist
I beg to differ, conserning Hezballah and their implementation of wilyat al faquieh the two books i mentioned do give a very intresting view of how it is implemented and understood...
Finally you keep asking others for proofs while you do not give any or if you do you give them from a very biased source (al akhbar) so if youfeel that LBC, annahar are not reliable why should i accept al akhbar. Knowing who runs it and his connections and principles...
1. I did not say it was not interesting, I said it was not thorough.
2. Walla, al-Akhbar does not post its opinions on the killing by Fatfat's gangs, it posts x-ray pictures (which any doctor can analyze and object to if the conclusions are wrong - I am sure there are many doctors who lean towards FM, maybe they should run a counter-story to debunk those claims in Al-Akhbar) and a copy of the report of the autopsy. What does opinion have to do with facts?
N10425
I m sorry but i am not an administrator, can't erase comments...
Anyways if you insiste we can talk to Eve or some other administrator.
Anarchist
you know your attitude push people to take extrem position.
in my first comment i started by saying that let us all move forward as all our leaders are to blame (in different levels) yet you came out with guns blazins only blaming 14th of march wihtout holding the others to any responsiblity AT ALL.
when you hurl your accusations this way you push your interlocutor to get instinctvly behind his camp and a sensless debat will result.
I did not undertsand your atitude
But when you spoke about why named yourself thus, i finaly got it where does this blind hatred of Hariri come from... from people like your prof Angry Arab... and his friend Najjah Wakim...
these kind of attitude do not lead any where, and on the contrary they are very destructive and divisive. I do not understand why someone like you can be so biased and singl mindedly blame one party, disregarding any other factors that might have played a role... it is a shame
All the threats and actions that come from HA are in order to serve foreign interests, as you can see clearly on this movie:
http://lebanonnewindustry.blogspot.com/
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