Demo
posted by Sassine And Marwa El Nabbout @ 1:23 AM
18.7.06
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24 Comments:
since I'm the first one to comment here, let me say: murder indeed ya sasmen, murder indeed.
If we dont say: heil Israel, the peaceful country of Love, we are Hizbollah Supporters?!! think a little sc, open your eyes... come to Lebanon & see what is going on... Do you think Liban Lait (milk industry) is a terrorist industry? do you think towns, houses are terrorists bases. do you think bridges, rivers, hopsitals, are terrorist bases. i know your country is bombed by Hizbollah, but did your govermnment bombed really hizbollah? till now just one dead?!! while bombing all Lebanon from the north to the south??!
Well, the manifestation in Montreal is not supporting Hizbollah, it is just a manifestation against war : causes & effects!! so i guess you can come & protest with them IF YOU ARE A PEACE SUPPORTER LIKE US
This is war, not murder. Israel could have simply hit the airport terminal first if it wanted to commit murder. Instead it damaged the runways, then the fuel tanks. Once nearly everyone got the message and left, then the terminal was bombed. This is war, not murder.
Doubtless the quickest and happiest (for Lebanon) way to peace is for the Lebanese government to not only agree to Israel's conditions, but ally with it to root out Hezbollah as well. What keeps you from doing this? Fear? Nasrallah is in hiding. Pride? What is there to be proud of?
This is not war, this is murder. War has rules and laws. Israel has violated the simplest of these laws from day one: people who are not fighting should be left alone. The basic means of life can not be taken from them. People can not be advised to flee and then be butchered while fleeing.
You will tell me that Hizbullah is killing civilians in Israel as well. All I can say is that it is not Hizbullah who started the killing of innocent people. And this is not the first time Israel beats Hizbullah to that. Israel has an unwavering history in Lebanon of unmistakenly hitting civilian targets, including hospitals and ambulances.
You may, however, call it War, the Israeli flavour, the laws of which are definitely not covered the Geneva Convention.
I don't suppose you need me to provide a link to the Laws of War.
if returning two soldiers would end this, then it should be done as soon as possible.
we can not let our pride stand in the way of saving the country from this insanity unleashed by israel.
Maybe we should pettition hizb to realease them...
any ideas how this could be done?
shmulik: (trying to pronounce your name while typing. What can't you have a simple and easy name like mine?).
I agree, Israel can target a lot more civilians and kill tens of thousands of innocent people, just like in 1982. I am really grateful. Thanks for being so considerate. Kattir kheir Israel.
Are you suggesting Marwahin was a mistake? While I can not provide physical evidence that it was not a mistake, you have obliged yourself to provide evidence that it was! And for that, you have to convince me that a Hizbullah rocket launcher had been spotted in the proximity. If Marwahin is a mistake, then so is qana and many others.
Same argument applies to the airport, which happens to be the only international airport. Human Rights Watch stresses that bombing airports can only be justified after providing evidince it has been used for smuggling weapons and captured soldiers and such. And even in that case, the interest of the civilians comes first.
Too much coincidence can not be a mistake. A pattern eventually develops and it becomes a theory. A proof then follows, whether by induction or by deduction.
Waiting for evidence that crimes are mistakes
Moron: Daheih is a there most densely populated area of Beirut. Hundreds of thousands of poor working-class people live there. Most of them support Hezbollah because they believe that the party represents them, and because they mostly come from the south, and they know what Israeli aggression means. Many of my friends live there. Most are Muslims, but some are Christians. Most support Hezbollah, some are communists, some are against it. Terrorist stronghold... Stop shooting ignorant drivel from your mouth. If you don’t know about something, don’t assume you do and keep quiet. Your army is hitting our roads and bridges and ports to break our backbone and demoralize us. They want to make us so weak we beg you for whatever cease-fire conditions you ask for. And while they’re at it, they want to take us back economically twenty years, so that we never dream of competing with you on any level. Jounieh port is in an area predominantly inhabited by Christian maronites. If you're telling me you think Hezbollah smuggles weapons from Jounieh port or from Batroun for that matter, or from Tripoli, and you're saying it with a straight face, then excuse me while I fucking laugh my ass off. You think Hezbollah bring weapons from Beirut international airport? What, on a first class plane ticket from Tehran? You’re a joke. You think the IDF hits a bus carrying a family driving in a van on a deserted road by mistake? And you have the balls to say that?
I’ll tell you why Israel doesn’t just blitz Beirut and kill hundreds of thousands. It’s not because the IDF are humanitarians. It’s because they don’t want the world opinion to turn on them. They kill just enough not to drive too much attention to them. You see, unfortunately, American and western media are so pathetically biased towards you that killing 200, 300, 500 people can pass under the radar. Killing 50,000 won’t, not that you wouldn’t do it if you could get away with it. You want to break our resolve and drive us to desperation while at the same time keeping the grand bullshit myth of ‘self-defense’. Fuck you. We know what you’re doing and it’s not going to work. Hezbollah have the backing of hundreds of thousands of Lebanese, and we’re not backing off.
One more thing. I’d like everyone to re-read the last sentence this bozo wrote. “mistakes can save lives too, only last week a top HAMAS terroist (freedom-fighter?) was saved because an air bomb didn't go off. This wasn't the first time we faild to kill him. By your logic we don't really want to kill him because several mistakes=intent.” So if Israel tries to kill a Hamas leader repeatedly and fails, they don’t really want to kill him, because it constitutes intent. They intend to miss. That WAS exactly the point you were making, right Assad? What a fucking joke. I have to work. Bye.
"why should we kill civilians on purpose?"
One possible and logical explanation is that by disposing a few lives, more lebanese will flip on Hizbullah. Another reason: They don't give a fuck about civilian lebanese lives.
It is Israel who is making these mistakes, and hence they are obliged to submit justifying evidence.
About endangering the lives of civilians: similarly, I need proof that Da7yi is a military base for Hizbullah to justify the amount of damage incurred on it. I say military because Hizbullah has a big civilian branch that is spread out among civilians. They have many humanitrian institutions, hospitals and schools. There are brothers in the same family sleeping under he same roof, yet one of them can be a member of Hizbullah while the other might be a critique of Hizbullah. Many of them have day jobs and they interact with other people.
I think you were talking about PLO in how much they endangered the lives of civilians
It's just hard to find, track, and destroy mobile launchers, that's all. The U.S. Air Force found it difficult during the 1991 Gulf War, I doubt if Israel finds it much easier now.
jooj: Yeah, provide me with a link to the Laws of War. What I've checked so far today is that under the Geneva Conventions, Lebanese civilians are not "protected persons".
jooj: You didn't rebut my previous reply, so we must assume that Israel does indeed care about preserving human lives. jij had a more interesting answer. I only wish it were true, but unfortunately in this world the more a nation kills the less likely it is that the world pays attention.
shmug: Ayn Ibil is receiving refugees you created. Those refugees can not flee to Beirut because a) there are no safe roads and 2)if they do make it in one piece to Da7yi, they will be under attack there as well. And who is delivering Jad J's news about HA moving from Da7yi into West Beirut? I wonder if the IDF is making decisions and calculations based on Jad J's recommendations and fears. One more thing: From what I recall, Ayn Ibil was full of SLA members that Hizbullah did not harm when they took over the village in 2000.
solteezi
"so we must assume that Israel does indeed care about preserving human lives"
Ahlen!
As for the link, google "Laws of War" with the "I am feeling lucky" option
shmug, you missed my point as well which is: why do we believe Jad midri joo who is an "Ain Ibillese"?
Now I feel I am wasting my time. Anyways, this brings closure; at least for now. So ta ta
This is war, and that's WHY:
If Israel wanted to commite murder, it would use some really beautiful weapons, of which it has a large stock, called "daisycutters", who for novices like you in the art of war, are the like of little atomic bombs. No chemicals, no nuclear, but they do a beautiful boom when they go off. Just make sure you are at one mile from the explosion point, or else, nice knowing you.
A couple of these could totally erase most of Beirut off the map. Not to talk about the rest of the country.
My question is, if Israel is so much directed to targeting civilians, why haven't they used them?
Because it ISN'T murder, stupids.
Now stop whining and watch how a war is fought. Maybe you'll learn something.
Now that I review it, it's actually half a mile, but anyway, it doesn't change things.
Sir Sefirot,
"Beautiful weapons", "Beautiful boom" ?
You get some kind of thrill out of war?
It seems your enjoying this.
""Beautiful weapons", "Beautiful boom" ?
You get some kind of thrill out of war?
It seems your enjoying this."
Indeed.
BTW, shmulik, I understand what you mean, but I'm afraid that ignorance freaks me out as well. Plus, I love black humor.
Opinion/Editorial
What Does Israel Want?
Ilan Pappe, The Electronic Intifada, 14 July 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine a group of high ranking generals who simulated for years Third World War scenarios in which they can move huge armies around, employ the most sophisticated weapons in their disposal and enjoy the immunity of a computerized headquarters from which they can direct their war games. Now imagine that they are informed that in fact there is no Third World War and their expertise is needed to calm down some of the nearby slums or deal with soaring crime in deprived townships and impoverished neighborhoods. And then imagine - in the final episode in my chimerical crisis - what happens when they find out how irrelevant have their plans been and how useless are their weapons in the struggle against the street violence produced by social inequality, poverty and years of discrimination in their society. They can either admit failure or decide none the less to use the massive and destructive arsenal at their disposal. We are witnessing today the havoc wreaked by Israeli generals who opted for latter course of action.
I have been teaching in the Israeli universities for 25 years. Several of my students were high ranking officers in the army. I could see their growing frustration since the outbreak of the first Intifada in 1987. They detested this kind of confrontation, called euphemistically by the gurus of the American discipline of International Relations: ‘low intensity conflict’. It was too low to their taste. They were faced with stones, molotov bottles and primitive arms which required a very limited use of the huge arsenal the army has amassed throughout the years and did not test at all their ability to perform in a battlefield or a war zone. Even when the army used tanks and F-16s, it was a far cry from the war games the officers played in the Israeli Matkal – headquarters – and for which they bought, with American tax payer money – the most sophisticated and updated weaponry existing in the market.
The first Intifada was crushed, but the Palestinians continued to seek ways of ending the occupation. They rose again in 2000, inspired this time by a more religious group of national leaders and activists. But it was still a ‘low intensity conflict’; no more than that. But this is not what the army expected, it was yearning for a ‘real’ war. As Raviv Druker and Offer Shelah, two Israeli journalists with close ties to the IDF, show in a recent book, Boomerang (p. 50), major military exercises before the second Intifada were based on a scenario that envisaged a full-scale war. It was predicted that in the case of another Palestinian uprising, there would be three days of ‘riots’ in the occupied territories that would turn into a head-on confrontation with neighboring Arab states, especially Syria. Such a confrontation, it was argued, was needed to maintain Israel’s power of deterrence and reinforce the generals confidence in their army’s ability to conduct a conventional war.
The frustration was unbearable as the three days in the exercise turned into six years. And yet, the Israeli army’s main vision for the battlefield is today still that of ‘shock and awe’ rather than chasing snipers, suicide bombers and political activists. The ‘low intensity’ war questions the invincibility of the army and erodes its capability to engage in a ‘real’ war. More important than anything else, it does not allow Israel to impose unilaterally its vision over the land of Palestine – a de-Arabized land mostly in Jewish hands. Most of the Arab regimes have been complacent and weak enough to allow the Israelis to pursue their policies, apart from Syria and Hizballah in Lebanon. They have to be neutralized if Israeli unileteralism is to succeed.
After the outbreak of the second Intifada in October 2000, some of the frustration was allowed to evaporate with the use of 1,000 kilo bombs on a Gaza house or during operation Defense Shield in 2002 when the army bulldozered the refugee camp in Jenin. But this too was a far cry from what the strongest army in the Middle East could do. And despite the demonization of the mode of resistance chosen by the Palestinians in the second Intifada – the suicide bomb – you needed only two or three F-16 and a small number of tanks to punish collectively the Palestinians by totally destroying their human, economic and social infrastructure.
I know these generals as well as one could know them. In the last week, they have had a field day. No more random use of one-kilo bombs, battleships, choppers and heavy artillery. The weak and insignificant new minister of defense, Amir Perez, accepted without hesitation the army demand for crushing the Gaza strip and grinding Lebanon to dust. But it may not be enough. It can still deteriorate into a full scale war with the hapless army of Syria and my ex-students may even push by provocative actions towards such an eventuality. And, if you believe what you read in the local press here, it may even escalate into a long distance war with Iran, backed by a supreme American umbrella.
Even the most partial reports in the Israeli press of what was proposed by the army to Ehud Olmert’s government as possible operations in the coming days, indicate clearly what enthuses the Israeli generals these days. Nothing less that a total destruction of Lebanon, Syria and Tehran.
The politicians at the top are more tamed, to a point. They have only partially satisfied the army’s hunger for a ‘high intensity conflict’. But their politics of the day are already donned by military propaganda and rational. This why Zipi Livni, Israeli foreign minister, an otherwise intelligent person, could say genuinely on Israeli TV tonight (13 July 2006) that the best way to retrieve the two captured soldiers ‘is to destroy totally the international airport of Beirut’. Abductors or armies that have two POWs of course immediately go and buy commercial tickets on the next flight from an international airport for the captors and the two soldiers. ‘But they can sneak them with a car’, insisted the interviewers. ‘Oh indeed’ said the Israeli Foreign Minister, ‘This is why we will also destroy all the roads in Lebanon leading outside the country’. This is good news for the army, to destroy airports, set fire to petrol tanks, blow up bridges, damage roads and inflict collateral damage on a civilian population. At least the airforce can show its ‘real’ might and compensate for the frustrating years of the ‘low intensity conflict’ that had sent Israel’s best and fiercest to run after boys and girls in the alleys of Nablus or Hebron. In Gaza the airforce has already dropped five such bombs, where in the last six years it dropped only one.
This may be not enough, though, for the army generals. They already say clearly on TV that ‘we here in Israel should not forget Damascus and Teheran’. Past experiences tell us what they mean by this appeal against our collective amnesia.
The captive soldiers in Gaza and Lebanon have already been deleted from the public agenda here. This is about destroying the Hizballah and Hamas once and for all, not about bringing home the soldiers. In a similar way in the summer of 1982, the Israeli public have totally forgotten the victim that provided the government of Menachem Begin with the excuse of invading Lebanon. He was Shlomo Aragov, Israel’s ambassador to London on whose life an attempt was made by a splinter Palestinian group. The attack on him served Ariel Sharon with the pretext of invading Lebanon and staying there for 18 years.
Alternative routes for the conflict are not even raised in Israel, not even by the Zionist left. No one mentions commonsensical ideas such as an exchange of prisoners or a commencement of a dialogue with the Hamas and other Palestinian groups at least over a long ceasefire to prepare the ground for more meaningful political negotiations in the future. This alternative way forward is already backed by all the Arab countries, but alas only by them. In Washington, Donald Ramsfeld may have lost some of his deputies in the Defense Department, but he is still the Secretary. For him, the total destruction of the Hamas and Hizballah – whatever the price and if it is without loss of American life – will ‘vindicate’ the raison d’être for the Third World Theory he propagated early on in 2001. The current crisis for him is a righteous battle against a small axis of evil – away from the quagmire of Iraq and a precursor for the so far unattained goals in the ‘war against terror’ – Syria and Iran. If indeed to a certain extent the Empire was serving the proxy in Iraq, the full fledged support President Bush gave to the recent Israeli aggression in Gaza and Lebanon, shows that may be pay off time has come: now the proxy should salvage the entangled Empire.
Hizballah wants back the piece of southern Lebanon Israel still retains. It also wishes to play a major role in Lebanese politics and shows ideological solidarity with both Iran and the Palestinian struggle in general, and the Islamist one, in particular. The three goals do not always complement each other and resulted in a very limited war effort against Israel in the last six years. The total resurrection of tourism on the Israeli side of the border with Lebanon testifies that, unlike the Israeli generals, for its own reasons the Hizballah is very happy with a very low intensity conflict. If and when a comprehensive solution for the Palestine question will be achieved even that impulse would die out. Crossing 100 yards into Israel proper is such an action. Retaliating to such a low key operation with a total war and destruction indicates clearly that what matters is the grand design not the pretext.
There is nothing new in this. In 1948, the Palestinians opted for a very low intensity conflict when the UN imposed on them a deal which wrested from their hand half of their homeland and gave it to a community of newcomers and settlers, most of whom arrived after 1945. The Zionist leaders waited for long time for that opportunity and launched an ethnic cleansing operation that expelled half of the land’s native population, destroyed half of its villages and dragged the Arab world into unnecessary conflict with the West, whose powers were already on the way out with the demise of colonialism. The two designs are interconnected: the wider Israel’s military might expands, the easier it is to complete the unfinished business of the 1948: the total de-Arabization of Palestine.
It is not too late to stop the Israeli designs from creating a new and terrible reality on the ground. But the window of opportunity is very narrow and the world needs to take action before it is too late.
We're Being Set Up for Wider War in the Middle East:
http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=56022
Israel's attack on Lebanon resulted in 9/11:
http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=55993
xD True words, bro. Guess I'll put the brake then. Thanks for the advice.
I love how the israelis can't get enough of our site! we know we're awesome, we know we're great, we know we're those amazing neighbors with the more beautiful country, but face it intruders, you just aren't our type!
eve, you may like to know that I'm Spanish :p
sefirot,
sadly, I'm not here to discuss the place where the world was blessed with your birth. till now, we've allowing you to blahblah on this forum, but start with insulting &name calling (starting from stupids and further), and we'll tell you bye bye.
shmulik,
listen to whom? each one of you doesn't have an identity. you are hiding behind anonymous names with no blog. start by having the courage of not hiding behind your fingers. start by acknowledging your crimes, start by admitting that one and one equals two, and maybe then, i'll consider listening to you.
Shh, don't tell that, this is the secret to rule the whole world... ¬¬
eve, you seem like quite susceptible, which I understand. I guess it's not this way here but from where I come "stupid" is not only an insult but means less punitive things. Guess it got lost in the translation. If you don't agree with my opinions/data, you're invited to come to my blog (which you can access through my profile) and comment as long as you want. BTW, my name is Oriol Gargallo and I live in Barcelona, Spain, 21 yo, I study Physics and Computers and I'm currently working as a science teacher. So no anonimous here. Your turn.
BTW, in this last message I could interpret you are menacing me, from which I have to declare a bloodhunt under the name of the Vast Zionist Conspiracy. Just kidding, as you will see I don't care much what people say. You should learn something about this.
I'm still waiting that someone rebates my statements in previous messages. What are you waiting for!
shumulik,
well, for someone who suck at computers, you sure are spending mcuh time on it. but don't worry, in a week, you'll still have plenty of time to spend here. not much work for you in your hospitals anyway.
sefirot,
did that. your blog is empty as your anonymous friend up there. if you think that by revealing your age and your fiancial & personal status, you would've answered my question, then think again. but maybe if you added a picture, then someone will consider this marriage proposal of yours. If you think that someone is still wasting their time reading your endless ranting/negativism up there, then, honey, we can dream, can't we? check previous comments, multiple persons have already given answers to your sole repetitive argument. Now if you think Im threatening to delete, then hurray you got it right this time. keeping your comments in the line of civil interchange & respect (check words in dictionary) is your way to garantee seeing the word sefirot on this blog again. now, excuse me, I have more important things to do than entertainging a computer savvy and another not so savvy (like a destroyed country as an example)...
oh yes, one more thing, (where's my manners) i come in peace.
It is empty?? You didn't look at it with the right program I guess. I'll bet you're using Explorer, right? Try with Mozilla Firefox or something of that sort, it works perfectly with those. Why, I don't know.
Unfortunately I haven't got any picture of me in the computer, but if you insist we can arrange that. I'm not that handsome either so I don't think you're losing anything. And yes, a lot of people has answered my comments (like you), but I'm waiting someone to rebate them. This still hasn't happened, in my opinion. (note: there's a subtle difference between "answering" and "rebating")
Am I forgetting something? Oh, yes, unlike some people around here, I DO stop to read your (textually copying here) "endless ranting/negativism up there". Call me a dreamer. Or tolerant, what suits best. If not, I would not be here, would I? I guess you'll prefer for me to be really intolerant, don't you :p
Well, have fun rebuilding the country. Oh, and let me doubt you come in peace, but I can live with that. 200 people in Madrid can't.
:)) guys, guys, you want to have the last word? fine, yalla, next comment.
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