We are all Hizbullah* (*Limited Offer,**terms &conditions apply)
A disclaimer: I never liked Hizbullah for my own reasons (I'm being polite). I don't like Syria (for the same reasons), and I could think less of the US and UK policy that let people die while their politicians were vacationing, or working for a "lasting ceasefire," yeah sure!
My general disregard and contempt to the regional and international powers - I hope - is a good excuse to give one of them -Hizbullah (HA) -some credit - for one time and one time only. Those who know me will assume that I have certainly lost my mind.
I don't like HA having weapons either, but someone else across the border will not disarm (hint.. Israel), and someone else across the border will not let the Lebanese army build its Armour. Lebanon cannot financially afford the burden of getting ultra-modern defensive technology to shoot down their F-16 next time Israeli warplanes come to destroy our bridges, and to curb their tanks the next time they tarnish our national soil or brutally attack our civilians. [Read Full Article]
posted by Fadi @ 2:18 PM
31 Comments:
Fadi,
when was the last time you hear of Israeli jets pounding Egyptian or Saudi, or Jordanian bridges?
Or Tunisian, or Lybian, or even Syrian bridges?
PLEASE! Don't fall for this "defense of Lebanon" crap! Hizballah can do nothing to defend Lebanon. All it can do is protect itself.
To destroy bridges, all you need are planes.... So tell me how many Israeli planes did the mighty Hizballah shoot down.
Give them credit and "sort of" defend them is exactly what they are counting on, to keep their weapons and drag you, your family, and the country in another UNECESSARY war (read Raja above).
Don't you see that?
@All
Although i don't agree with everything that Fadi says, there is an important thing to note that in 1982, it took the Israeli army few days to reach Beirut. With a National Resistance (currently Hezbollah), the IDF could not reach Litani River in a month! It is true, we cannot destroy Israeli warships and warplanes, but at least we can defend our land against invasion and kill their soldiers and destroy their tanks.
Personally, I understand that the USA and their allies want us to live without any kind of defense at the mercy of Israel, just like many of the Arab countries. Do you want to live because Israel decided to spare our lives for another day? I don't want that.
Yes, Fadi, I think you've lost your mind.
The only reason Lebanon would have to fear the armed nation of Israel is because Lebanon is burdened with a Syrian/Iranian proxy army that attacks Israel from Lebanese soil.
Furthermore, did HA (after causing the most recent invasion) protect Lebanon from invasion by Israel? No. The only reason Israel didn't move cross the whole of Lebanon and flatten the entire country is Israel's forebearance....NOT HA's military power.
So, after getting Lebanon in a war with its neighbor, HA was unable to defend Lebanon from destruction. All it could do was cause limited damage to Israel. If that's okay with you, then you have a peculiar grasp of the concept of patriotism.
Ahmad,
I want those decisions (war and peace) to be made by the PEOPLE (via the State). I.e, I want my say in them.
fadi ,ahmad and contributors on LBF,
I guess we need posts on the "peace treatie with israel and the future defensive or military plan" .. thus we can see everyone's point of view.. let's mthe same title. what do u think?
raja,
what u see as a crap, others see it in another sense.
and what u say may seems crap for others. let's discuss the subject basd on facts.
If egypt-israeli peace is going so well why the egyptian people after 27 years still refuse to normalize the relations with israel?
let's make them under the same title. what do u think? *
" it took the Israeli army few days to reach Beirut. With a National Resistance (currently Hezbollah), the IDF could not reach Litani River in a month! It is true, we cannot destroy Israeli warships and warplanes, but at least we can defend our land against invasion and kill their soldiers and destroy their tanks."
Ahmad, this is nonsensical. The Israeli army didn't want to reach beirut, they said all along their goal (territorially) was a buffer zone up to the Litani, and they actually reached the Litani. Israeli soldiers are sitting on all of the Lebanese land that they wanted to be on - that's a victory for Hezbollah?
It took them 30 days to do it? Yes, if you count from the beginning of the war. If you count from when Israel got serious about a ground invasion, as opposed to engaging in only specifically limited ground operations - i.e. the day Israel called in more ground troops and began their push to the Litani in earnest - it took them what, 3 days?
The simple fact is that Hezbollah can play with frames of reference all they want - "last time they reached Beirut. This time they didn't. Thus we are victorious!" "It took them 30 days to occupy our land this time. Thus we are victorious!" - but the only explanation for believing that this type of "defense" is effective enough that there is no need for peace, well, that can only be explained by your willingness to swallow propaganda whole.
ahmad,
the only reason Isreal didn't send tanks to Beirut this time is --for a variety of reasons-- they chose not to.
HA is responsible for bringing Israel INTO Lebanon. They had little power to keep them out. HA is a liability to Lebanese security. It is scant benefit. And any benefit it represents is similar to the security benefit of having Syria or Iran occupy Lebanon.
@JoseyWales:
I agree; the decisions of war and peace are to be made by the government. What I am worried about is how to defend ourselves without any Resistance.
@Akiva M:
@Cmar II:
@the rest pro-Israel:
The last thing I want to do is to discuss an internal issue with a person siding with our enemy! Anyway, since you are here, I will tell you this joke that I read on Urshalim:
A group of Israeli soldiers were witnessed beating the hell out of the Wazani River, torturing it to confess that it is the Litani River.
Ahmad,
What I am worried about is how to defend ourselves without any Resistance
Come on man. Check what ALL other countries on the planet do to defend themselves (including Syria).
Think we are "special"? That's why this "special" war happened (and 1982 and 1975-76).
Ahmad,
If Hezbollah wasn't constantly talking about the destruction of Israel, it would be an internal issue. When your "internal issue" involves the existence of a group that has announced plans to attack external people, it's not external.
Of course, nobody can force you to listen to anyone else, so I'm sure you'll have scrolled past this by now, but:
"What I am worried about is how to defend ourselves without any Resistance."
How have the Jordanians defended themselves without a resistance? How have the Egyptians?
That's your answer.
"A group of Israeli soldiers were witnessed beating the hell out of the Wazani River, torturing it to confess that it is the Litani River"
LOL
That's almost as funny as "there are no Americans in Baghdad"
ahmad,
let them relieve some presurre..
7aram..
im sure if israel acted like your hizbullah terrorists with no care for human life and used a few more weapons from its arsenal, it could of ran over every inch of soil in lebanon in days.
(Table Mountains, grammatical correction:
I am sure you meant "could have" instead of "could of", a very common grammatical mistake... :)
Hilal, I don't know if you were serious about your idea on the "peace treatie with israel and the future defensive or military plan", but I think it is a good idea. Any volunteers?
akiva, the jordaniand and egyptians have an army very well funded mind you, by the US. regional interets of the mighty empire.
table mountains, now you're obviously not worth debating with!
akiva..
That's almost as funny as "there are no Americans in Baghdad"
you're nothing but a sad bitter little girl!!
and HA talks about the destruction of israel!! they talk about getting it out of lebanon and out of our business. but when you look at the way palestinians are treated by israel, you're allowed to your fantasies no?
onejordan, they didn't give us a chance to forget in order to maybe contemplate peace, EVER!!
even when i grew up in war with them, my children would've forgotten by now but here you go..
they're relentless..
we know inno maghloub 3ala amerna. do you know that the aub won't get funding mitlelnas unless mna3mel ma3on salem?
there's that and there's the war now.. how can you ignore the hate and anger they left for generations to come? there's not one of the people i know who would accept peace with them after this.
and netanyahu's quote!! just look at what's happening to the palestinians man..
yes I was serious..
I want to hear all points of views although my opinion has been known by now.
I left this on another blog:
The reason why Shia support Hizbollah isn’t because of Chebaa or Palestine. It’s because they are afraid that disarming Hizbollah would just give Israel license to commit further aggression against their communities. Why should they take your word that if Hizbollah disarmed, that things would be all OK with Israel?
If Israel is going to unleash such destruction because of one cross-border incident – never mind its repeated incursions into Lebanon and flights over Lebanese airspace since 2000 – who’s to say that Israel won't find another pretext to attack Lebanon?
Even in the absence of Hizbollah, Israel would still have interests in Lebanon – (e.g. using the Litani, crushing the Palestinian refugees, demonstrating to the world that it’s the boss of the Mideast). It wouldn’t take much to give Israel a pretext: a Qassam from a Palestinian refugee camp, another dispute over the Litani.
Even if Lebanon could set the clock back to 1969 (something I believe is highly unlikely, given how Lebanon’s politics have changed), what makes you sure that Israel would reciprocate in kind? Israel had its hands tied with Jordan, Egypt and Syria from 1948-1969; it doesn’t anymore. We all know what happened in 1982, when Arafat went out of his way to avoid provoking Israel, and Sharon invaded Lebanon anyway .
The point is not that Hizbollah is an effective deterrent against an Israel invasion - obviously, you and I know it's nothhing of the sort. It’s that you need to take the fears of your Shia countrymen seriously. If Hizbollah is disarmed, what alternative deterrents will Lebanon have against Israel?
"IF Hezbollah is disarmed what alternative deterrents will Lebanon have against Israel?"......Israel NEVER attacks anyone unless THEY are attacked....WAKE UP ALREADY!!! The enemy isn't Israel...the enemy of Lebanon is Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah....Praise Hezbollah all you want and then go look at what your country looks like now!
raja,
you are right. Hizbollah can't defense Lebanon, and i don't think it is their goal anymore. Maybe once... but not anymore. I don't think they serve Lebanon interest..They don't care about Lebanon. They are using our beautiful country as a battlefield.
onejorden, I hope someday we won't have to be afraid of Israel crossing our borders.
Peace in Lebanon.
Shirin from Lebanon
http://shirin-from-lebanon.blogspot.com/
>>akiva, the jordaniand and egyptians have an army very well funded mind you, by the US. regional interets of the mighty empire.<<<
Hold on - you're suggesting that the reason Israel and Jordan/Egypt haven't fought since they made peace is because Israel is intimidated by their armies? That Israel would love to start a war with them - after all, the Israelis are evil, war mongering land grabbers who want to take over the middle east - but just don't have the firepower?
Do you honestly believe that?
>>>That's almost as funny as "there are no Americans in Baghdad"
you're nothing but a sad bitter little girl!!<<<
Odd, since I'm actually both male and generally a happy guy, but I'll defer to your obviously superior knowledge of my gender and emotional state ;)
Look, the point of that joke - and the rest of the comments on the site it was linked from - was that the Israelis aren't actually at the Litani. Because even Hezbollah supporters have a hard time explaining how Israeli soldiers on every piece of land they said was their territorial goal, can be considered a victory (much like Baghdad Bob had a hard time explaining how Iraq could be winning if US soldiers were fast approaching Baghdad)
So, just like Baghdad Bob did, the response is to simply deny the reality that you cannot spin. Israelis at the Litani? Americans closing on Baghdad? It is not true, never true, all lies, lies!
Again, do you honestly believe that??
>>and HA talks about the destruction of israel!! they talk about getting it out of lebanon and out of our business.<<
Whoops, sorry, no. Hezbollah in their own words:
"Hezbollah's spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin had this to say about the Farms: "If they go from Sheba'a, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine...[Jews] can go back to Germany or wherever they came from.”[18]" (Quote from New Yorker, 10/14/2002)
Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah: "If Jews all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide." (NY Times, May 23, 2004, p. 15, section 2, column 1.)
>>but when you look at the way palestinians are treated by israel, you're allowed to your fantasies no?<<
um, no, not when the "fantasy" involves destroying a country and killing millions of people. Not that anyone can stop you - but don't expect anyone to sympathize with you either, when you are broadcasting "fantasies" or eternal war and genocide.
>>onejordan, they didn't give us a chance to forget in order to maybe contemplate peace, EVER!!
even when i grew up in war with them, my children would've forgotten by now but here you go..
they're relentless..<<
You know, I never looked at it that way. They really are relentless.
They're so relentless, that they forced Hezbollah to make a cross border raid, shell their towns and kidnap their soldiers.
Sneaky Israelis . . .
>>there's that and there's the war now.. how can you ignore the hate and anger they left for generations to come? there's not one of the people i know who would accept peace with them after this. <<
Then you haven't been paying attention, since many of your fellow bloggers - the rational ones, who understand that peace is better than eternal war, that dignity comes from living a good life, not from trying to kill Israelis - are saying exactly the opposite.
Onejordan - thank you for your comments.
tes arch.memory, a grammatical error it was.we all make them .sometimes we say terrorist when instead it can be simply called muslim.
table . . . what the hell?
They're so relentless, that they forced Hezbollah to make a cross border raid, shell their towns and kidnap their soldiers.
Sneaky Israelis . . .
Are you aware of Israel's frequent incurisions into Lebanon since 2000? HAve you read the UNIFIL reports?:
For the period from Jan. 23, 2001, to July 20, 2001:
"As reported in April, Israeli aircraft violated the line on an almost daily basis, penetrating deep into Lebanese airspace. These incursions, particularly those at low level breaking the sound barrier over populated areas, were especially provocative and caused great anxiety to the civilian population. The air violations are ongoing, despite repeated démarches to the Israeli authorities."
For the period from July 21, 2001, to Jan. 16, 2002:
"Israeli air violations of the Blue Line, however, continued on an almost daily basis, penetrating deep into Lebanese airspace. These incursions are not justified and cause great concerns to the civilian population, particularly low-altitude flights that break the sound barrier over populated areas. The air violations are ongoing, although démarches to the Israeli authorities […] have been made repeatedly by me, other senior United Nations officials and a number of interested Governments."
For the period from Jan. 17, 2002, to July 12, 2002:
"Unjustified Israeli air incursions into sovereign Lebanese airspace continued on an almost daily basis throughout most of the reporting period, often penetrating deep into Lebanon and frequently generating sonic booms. In the latter half of April, a pattern emerged whereby the aircraft would fly out to sea and enter Lebanese airspace north of the UNIFIL area of operation, thus avoiding direct observation and verification by UNIFIL. In January Hezbollah began responding to the overflights with anti-aircraft fire. This activity has continued through the present. On a number of occasions […] shells crossed the Blue Line. Calls on Israel to cease the overflights […]"
Peter,
Odd, why would Israel violate Lebanese airspace?
Could it be - possibly - because of the existence of an armed militia dedicated to attacking Israel? Might it have something to do with Israel's need for reconaissance information about that group's positions?
Well, the timing indicated by your report tells you that the answer to those questions is yes.
According to UNIFIL, Hezbollah was the first to engage in any serious violation of the blue line and ceasefire, on October 7, 2000, when they launched a cross border attack and took 3 Israeli soldiers captive. "Following this incident, the Israeli air force resumed flights over Lebanese territory http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N00/712/72/IMG/N0071272.pdf?OpenElement
I'll say it again - sneaky Israelis. More sneaky than I originally gave them credit for, really. Apparently, they lured Hezbollah into kidnapping soldiers in 2000 as part of a complex plan, so that they could resume overflights of Lebanese territory, which would provide a later excuse for another cross-border attack six years later, which they could use as a pretext for reinvading Lebanon . . .
Wow - they really are some deep strategic thinkers.
FYI, a final, tragically prophetic quote from that UNIFIL report:
"I believe that the time has come to establish the state of affairs envisaged in the resolution. This requires, first and foremost, that the Government of Lebanon take effective control of the whole area vacated by Israel last spring and assume its full international responsibilities, including putting an end to the dangerous provocations that have continued on the Blue Line. Otherwise, there is a danger that Lebanon may once again be an arena, albeit not the only one, of conflict between others."
Hezbollah is the resistance in Lebanon and an inspiration to all those opposed to USA imperialism.
See this Video:
George Galloway Respect MP on Hezbollah:
at (You Tube):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R...h? v=R0yvwnN6EAc
or live on the Respect blog at:
http://respectuk.blogspot.com/20...- hezbollah.html
For more artcles and videos by George Galloway the Respect MP in the UK parliament see the Respect Blog at:
http://respectuk.blogspot.com/
The Blog recommended by www.georgegalloway.com
Neil Williams
Respect Blog (The Respect Supporters Blog)
http://respectuk.blogspot.com/
to quote you: "and I could think less of the US and UK policy that let people die while their politicians were vacationing, or working for a "lasting ceasefire."
Do not sell your thoghts short. You should not be afraid to go a step further and get down to the crux of the US/UK role. How can we view what happened and not say outright that US/UK had a direct hand in the izraeli aggression?
Ibn Bint Jbeil: I completely agree, and stand corrected.
It was just an expression, not an acquital. I was just accusing them of NOT doing the minimum in name of Human Rights, as I have absolutely no doubt that the US/UK policy would do more: Worse, they did everything WRONG.
They failed to do the minimum.. Save babies. Just that. what's the use of asking for more?
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