Where the boys are...

This article from the New York Times has been circulating the Lebanese blogosphere the past couple of days.

I find the article degrading to all women in Lebanon. This article was written in an extremely shallow level. The ration of women to men being 5:1 might actually be true although there aren't statistics to prove it.

It is obvious that the author of this article, Katherine Zoepf, did not do her homework properly. It seems like this lady simply visited the clubbing districts in order to write this article instead of visiting different areas of Lebanon.

It is a known fact, that many Lebanese women dress "freely" but not all Lebanese women dress that way, and the reason they do dress freely is not to grab attention of the Lebanese men living abroad visiting Lebanon.

This article make women in Lebanon seem so desperate for marriage where in reality, if we are simply going to talk about the women clubbing, most of them are university students and/or career oriented women not so desperate for marriage as they claim. Also, if the author of the article is going to discuss marriage, she should be aware that the average marriage age in Lebanon has gone up to the age of 27 for females, whereas she has interviewed 19 year old girls!

I also find it degrading for men, to place a quote in the article that all men who stay in Lebanon are not-ambitious, have closed mentalities and stay to find a virgin to marry. In my opinion hat quote is hilarious. Many men prefer to stay in Lebanon, in their homeland for their love for it no matter how hard things may get; a lot of men stay in Lebanon instead of travelling to the Gulf countries so that they can continue enjoying the freedom they have there rather than being closed up in Gulf countries; and I think most people are aware of the sexual life available in Lebanon.

I simply find this article repulsive and a waste of paper.


At Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:38:00 PM, Blogger lebanese_student said...

I agree that in Lebanon there is some pressure for a girl in her mid 20's to get married...but this article makes us sound like tigers trying to pounce on any meat we can find! Wow this lady seems to have spent an evening in some shady part of beirut, taking quotes from desperate peope (probably the only ones willing to give their names and stuff)...we go out to party and have fun...not search for a future...

At Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:50:00 PM, Blogger Charles Malik said...

Katherine’s article twisted the facts. However, this piece was most likely asked of her by her editors as a post-war, "Lebanon is cool and sexy" kind of piece. And that's what she gave them.

She tried to delve deeper into the issue, which is one of concern to most Lebanese and people familiar with Lebanon: why do Lebanese women dress the way they do? Why so much plastic surgery? Why so much attention to style and fashion? And why all of this in the Middle East, which is reknowned for the exact opposite? These things do not spring up overnight.

Katherine is an attractive journalist who is very familiar with Lebanese nightlife, as she’s lived in Lebanon and Syria for quite some time now. Of course, she's also American and knows what will interest her American editors and readers.

That said, the article did provide an inaccurate portrayal of Lebanon. But given that she probed deeper into the issue than most journalists who simply write, "Beirut is great! Beirut is fun! Lebanon has Starbuck's! I went to Music Hall and had the time of my life!" she's provided a greater service than disservice.

Realize that most people reading the article think about Hezbollah and the women at Hezbollah rallies when they think of Lebanon.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 2:23:00 AM, Blogger Omar said...

I dont agree 100% but lets face it... Lebanese women have degraded themselves to get any attention they can get. What is their purpose??? Are they trying to be teases or are they really trying to find a man to marry?

Im Lebanese (from bekaa valley) and live in the US... and I dont understand the Lebanese women at all. Back in the day the lebanese-american guys could go to lebanon and get a nice wife... now-a-days your better off staying here and getting one...

sad sad

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 6:35:00 AM, Blogger zizou from Djerba said...

Totally agree with charles, he said everything I wanted to say!

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:21:00 AM, Blogger Nader said...

ditto, but still a sad story and shocking picture (kinda reminded me of ChayoteUgly). Where is the middle between the rallying women, and the decent ones?

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:42:00 AM, Blogger Rampurple said...

So I should appreciate that she did not say how great Lebanon is to have a Starbucks? Or should I appreciate that she wasn't showing Hizbos?

Omar??? Finding a decent woman in Lebanon?? If you are out to "shop" for a lady no matter where from than I suggest you stay at home.

My friends, these women that Katherine wrote about, are the same women who are educated and participate in our society. My friends, these women Katherine wrote about, are the same women we saw on the streets during March 8th, March 14th, and doing community work to help out the needy during the July war. My friends, these women that Katherine wrote about, are your sisters, daughters, nieces, wives, girlfriends, etc.

My dear bloggers, I am a regular club-goer. I party the night away to have fun and not to grab the attention of potential rich husbands. If you do not find me as "wife" potential then that in reality is your loss and no one elses.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 10:06:00 AM, Blogger hashem said...

The article is just an amatourish one that NYT should be really ashamed to put in this way. Portraying what the reporter saw and heard from a small group of desperate men-hunters as an example of Lebanese women is simply non-professional in the journalism life.
Listing an opinion that guys who stayed in Lebanon are only the losers and stupid ones whithout pointing out that the country is full of successful young men who stayed there by choice and well informed-decisions is just suspicious that the reporter wants the readers to believe that.
Lebanon is an open country, something no one denies and this is part of us.
People go clubbing, each for his/her reasons....fun, laughing, dancing, drinking, looking at girls/guys, sex, marriage, or..or...is part of our Lebanon that we all know.
We have a brain drain from young people immigrating the country because of the miserable political, social,and economic sitiuation is a fact that has been worsening and worth casting light on....no doubt. The more important is to present it in a scientific way, understanding the real problem,and the real reasons behind it. It's obvious that the reporter had this as a low priority in her report that appeared in such a respectful newspaper as NYT.

I here second Ashraf in the group that we, bloggers, can write a well balanced and well written reply that we demand the newspaper to publish in the same place, showing the other faces Lebanon has and that what the reporter saw was a small part of the big picture and portrayed in a way that stripped it from its real meaning and implications.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 12:09:00 PM, Blogger Delirious said...

Rampurple, I don't think the issue here is whether or not Lebanese women go out clubbing, but rather the way they dress and act during their night out. You and I and our educated sisters, daughters, nieces, wives, girlfriends, etc. can very well party the night out, but our aim would be to have fun, period. Not dress in provocative flesh-baring outfits that leave nothing to the imagination, and publicly act in a manner that would make a prostitute blush... and then, act all prudish about it. If you're a regular club-goer, you should know what I'm talking about. I'm a woman, and I ask you: when a woman dresses and acts this way, what is she looking for?
Granted, this Katherine didn't do her homework well, and kind of twisted the facts by basing herself on a small category of women that are supposed to represent all their fellow countrywomen-- and this is what's totally unacceptable.
I agree with and second everything you said in your post, and suggest that we, Lebanese women, pen a letter of protest in answer to that load of BS.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 3:23:00 PM, Blogger Angry Anarchist said...

Well, the objections to this article (while the writer is off the mark on many points!) is akin to shooting the messenger, because, whether we like to admit it or not, there is A LOT OF TRUTH TO THIS. It is indeed wrong to generalize and say ALL are like this; however, I am not sure where it says ALL women are like this. It does imply, however, that a large section of Lebanese society subscribes to this mode of thinking/lifestyle. It IS TRUE. Just look around you when you're walking around, especially in the evenings and in the club/pub(I don't know why most people object to the word "bar" here, saying it has negative insinuations... mmm!) and even restaurant scenes. It is quite disgusting to be honest.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 4:59:00 PM, Blogger Mirvat said...

i agree with rampurple. this article is silly and not very well researched. i find it as offensive to the lebanese women as it is to the lebanese men chose to stay in lebanon. Interviewing 19 year old women doesn't make any sense. freshly graduated men and women in lebanon find themselves disoriented for the lack of economical prosperity that leaves place for ambition, esp. after this war i would imagine so i could see how some girls might have convinced themselves of marriage same as any redneck with no immediate prospects would do here in the US. someone made the point that some families might still push a girl at 19 to find a husband, fine but i've never heard of a traditional lebanese father sending his girl to the club to find a man!
as for the clubs, there's really two kinds of club scenes in lebanon. i think i know that very well since i might be one of those flesh showing girls dancing on top of bars that delirious is describing. and i know very well because my cousin is the PR agent for most of these places.
so the first kind of clubs would be where my sister likes to go all dressed up and feeling beautiful just to have fun and dance without being criticized. those places are where most younger adults go and where the music reflects this state of mind, more rave, techno, hip hop joints..the crowd is usually groups of friends. a perfect negative control would be Acid. a club where most of the guys are gay (ok all the guys) and where the women dress up and show skin and dance on top of those huge cubes JUST FOR FUN.
the other kind is the more mature kind of lounge/clubs. the slightly more expensive places where the music tends to be arabic and where there would be a one man show. i have seen people opening 50000 $ worth bottles of champagne at places like that. the women i saw at these places are older (mid-20 to mid-30), some might be looking and some might just be wih friends or fiances or husbands and some are in groups with other women just having fun (again like any woman in new york on a saturday night). what's interesting about places like that in the summer is that you find as many arabic women as you do lebanese. just spend half an hour in the ladies room and you get to meet most of the people there.
there will always be some girls who dress up and show flesh to land a husband but really most women just want the attention and many many others just want to feel good and have fun.
lebanese women love to dress up and love to feel sexy and love fashion and a lot of arabic women admire that. they like to be as distinguished as women in paris and as sexy as new york women. did we think they do it to feel good and they do for themselves? really what's wrong with that?

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 6:27:00 PM, Blogger Angry Anarchist said...

Mirvat -

What is it with Parisian women that makes them distinguished? And same for the New Yorkian women being sexy? You are saying let us not generalize; but here you are making sweeping generalizations. And based on what, if I may ask?

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:11:00 PM, Blogger Mirvat said...

i'm saying the inclination towards fashion could be just out of love for fashion. lebanese women dress up with such care and generally don't leave the house with flip flops which is something i saw in paris and it's something parisian women are known for. harmless generalization really. as for wanting to look sexy to clubs well how is that any different from women in nyc who incidentally are described as strong independent professional women.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:30:00 PM, Blogger Angry Anarchist said...

Let me clarify, because I think what I said was misunderstod : What makes this "inclination" towards fashion "distinguished"? You are criticizing this article for going to the extreme, yet you are endorsing the other extreme. What's so undistinguished about leaving the house with flip-flops?

I really dislike this superior-than-thou (in terms of fashion) attitude, which is - YES - VERY common amongst the Lebanese. Believe me, I meet these people every day. The place I work at is an EXACT miniature of this. People even attend university to show themselves off, not to learn something. Just look at what these girls are wearing at universities (in some universities it's worse than others) and initiate a conversation with them (I have), and you will see that they are pretty much empty-headed and except for talks about materialistic things like dressing up, hair colour, etc., they don't know much, and are pretty much clueless about what's going on around them (in this country and in the world in general). This is by no means a cross-section of Lebanese society that justifies generalizations (nothing justifies generalizations anyway), but it is a VERY, VERY large section of Lebanese society. This is pure ignorance. So I say, let us not encourage it based on instinctual defense of "our" people. Let us be honest and point out the wrongs. Only in realizing the wrongs can one truly appreciate the rights.

Anyway, I still fail to see what's "distinguishedness" or "sexyness" got to do with wearing 20 cm heels or knee-length boots to university, or wearing cocktail-party attires for a class?? Have you ever talked to these people? I have even corrected their tests and exams and homeworks. If these people are the true Lebanese youth, then I say: WOE to this nation!

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:53:00 PM, Blogger Mirvat said...

as far as i'm concerned you can't catch me dead wearing heels. i was talking about the night venue specifically and i do realize that there's a general decline in ambitions if you will in lebanon. i don't blame it specifically on lebanese women but on the export of materialistic values to keep the younger generations busy and far from thinking. there's a global sense of depression. it's more apparent in the arabic world which is becoming more business and money oriented. i don't blame our people as much as i do the wealthier arabs. the continuous frustration with our political and economical situation might easily leave the people wanting to live for the moment and looking for easier solutions. let's not go into that. what you fail to discuss is that what you criticize goes for women as well as men in lebanon.

i'm still not defending what we're becoming. i'm trying to dissect the reasons we got here. something i kept hearing when i was there from a lot of young men and women is 'what's the point' of being agressive, of going to college even, of studying something that you might never be able to apply in your country. a lot are genuinely depressed and yes clueless.

so really the hunger for money, the fashion.. the weak spirits.. is a side product of a bigger sense of defeat. a continuous sense of the lack of dreaming, of believing in your country, in your government, in the 'right way out', in a more noble endeavor.

i would stop blaming the appearances. you're in a position that gives you a chance to help. try to show them that their talents, even if exported in the beginning, will help the country one day. try to divert them away from a pop culture that we imported and didn't know how to handle it. try to show them that there's another path.

so again, dancing and focusing on fashion.. really harmless compared to the real issues.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:33:00 PM, Blogger N10452 said...

I cannot believe some people are actually defending this article.

Yes we do have a lot of women who comply with the author's description, but that doesnt give her the right to generalize.

."People even attend university to show themselves off, not to learn something"

So what? is that only the case in Lebanon ? i happened to be around those groups a lot of times and had a lot of talks with them and no they are not stupid, in fact the stupid ones are those who keep on commenting on those people without really getting to know them.

So what if a girl is well-dressed to college ? so what if she likes to show off ?

Why dont we have guys who like to show off ?? I always saw more dressed up guys than girls in the universities i ve been to and i ve been to almost all of them ( visiting not always studying).

As for clubbing, the author is taking c-lounge as an example ? and where do you see women like the ones she took a picture of ?

It was a Halloween " who s the sexiest?" party .. do you expect girls wearing veils ?

Next time, maybe someone should advise her to go to Maameltein to give us a report on the Lebanese girls, barke byotla3o killoun whores who speak russian.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:53:00 PM, Blogger achinar said...

i 100% agree with you, this was none hell of a shallow article, kinda cheap stuff to attract more readers

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 9:05:00 PM, Blogger Rampurple said...

For the record, I am 27 years old and I went to the "poshest" university in Lebanon to get an education and partied my heart off during the five years I was studying there. I now work abroad, am career oriented and am very successful. Oh and also for your information, I was in Lebanon for the Eid vacation dancing on stage, on speakers, on chairs, in clothes that show off my body and flesh.

Was I trying to land a husband? Hell no! I was there having fun and just fun dancing the nights away.

So basically, this article offends me personally and many other women like myself.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 9:21:00 PM, Blogger Angry Anarchist said...

So what? is that only the case in Lebanon ? i happened to be around those groups a lot of times and had a lot of talks with them and no they are not stupid, in fact the stupid ones are those who keep on commenting on those people without really getting to know them.
1. Who said that was only the case in Lebanon? Does the fact that this is the case elsewhere mean that we should not point out the wrongs? By the way, as far as I am aware, from my stay in European and North American countries, this issue is not as acute as it is in Lebanon.

2. They are not stupid on what bases? I am not talking about random discussions like "what's your hobby?" (though even the way they reply to such questions shows their idiocy), I am talking about "heavier" discussions. Like, what is your opinion on civil marriage, or some such topic. Note that I am not judging them based on their approval/rejection of say civil marriage. I am judging them based on the lack of logic/reason, the way they express themselves (for goodness's sake, I am telling you I have CORRECTED their TESTS, EXAMS, HOMEWORKS AT UNIVERSITY - I KNOW these people, I HAVE MET THEM, and they have COME TO MY OFFICE HOURS; most of them have the brains of a CHICKEN. You might be offended but hey, i'm being FRANK). For me, reason is more important than anything anyone may wear (this does not mean that dressing is not taken into account, but it is only secondary to other, more important, qualities). Maybe it's not the same for you. I mean, we have here people seeing something wrong in wearing flip-flops, and in a way looking at them in a condescending manner (by the way, who said they don't wear flip-flops in Paris? I have been to Paris, and I have seen many who wear it. Not everyone likes or wears or even affords to wear designer clothing/shoes you know..). Now I don't go around talking about these show-off type girls. Frankly, it is none of my business. However, since we are having a discussion on this issue, I might as well state my opinion on that.

So what if a girl is well-dressed to college ? so what if she likes to show off ?
Ah, but you see, my concept of well-dressed is not: wearing cocktail party dresses to a freaking lecture. Yours might be, but mine is NOT. Have you even seen students in Paris? You can be well-dressed without wearing these things. Those people are overdoing, and by doing so are asking for such comments and attitudes. You know what we call those people in North America? On second thoughts, you might not want to know.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 9:24:00 PM, Blogger Mirvat said...

i'm with you 100% rampurple. i felt offended for myself and many friends back home who like to party while landing a husband is the last thing on our mind. and angry you're forgetting one thing, the college years tend to be the party years. it doesn't dictate who the girl or boy will be in the future and rampurple here as well as myself are examples of that.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 9:37:00 PM, Blogger Angry Anarchist said...

the continuous frustration with our political and economical situation might easily leave the people wanting to live for the moment and looking for easier solutions. let's not go into that. what you fail to discuss is that what you criticize goes for women as well as men in lebanon.
No, LET'S go into that. Are you telling me that Lebanon is suffering more than Iraq? Palestine? OK, let us only take EMPLOYMENT / socio-economic conditions and not political/military conditions. Let us take Bosnia-Herzegovina, another country that is recovering from civil war. Why do we not see similar trends in Bosnia? Are you telling me Lebanon is unique? Yeah, it goes for men and women in Lebanon, sure. Who said I was defending men? I guess you're insinuating that I am a male and I am looking down upon women. On both counts you are wrong. :D

something i kept hearing when i was there from a lot of young men and women is 'what's the point' of being agressive, of going to college even, of studying something that you might never be able to apply in your country. a lot are genuinely depressed and yes clueless.
Yeah, that's the right attitude. --rolling eyes-- And really shows how reasonable these people are. By the way, who said that this is the attitude of the majority of people? Why is it that only those who dress up like that and go out partying every night, have this attitude? Are you saying that these are the only ones who are depressed? And if it is about career, opportunities (which all goes back to money and good living conditions), how come they have so much money to spend on partying? You realize you are contradicting yourself? The bottom line is that, this is a huge myth spread around, that these people are depressed about the lack of money and jobs. Funny I don't see them being condemned to sitting at home cos they allegedly can't afford to go out...

Am I depressed about the situation? Sometimes. More like, pessimistic. But, that does not mean I would do all the wrong things. I am not stupid (and yes, these people ARE - it is more a sign of stupidity than depression). If I could afford to go out and party my heart out, would I do it? No (actually I can probably afford to go clubbing at least once a week, but I don't). In other words, no matter how depressed and pessimistic I may be, I would not dress up like that and/or do the things they are doing. So you are giving wrong reasons for it. When you have a scapegoat (the country's situation), it's always easy for everyone to blame all their wrongdoings and actions on that. Because if we're going to do that, then I can compile a whole list of wrongdoings (including killing, stealing, etc.) that can be blamed on the situation.

On the other hand, you have many hardworking, serious people. Are these less prone to depression?

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 9:39:00 PM, Blogger Angry Anarchist said...

Ya Mirvat,

the college years tend to be the party years.
Believe me, I know this more than you do, and probably knew it before you. However, how does this actually relate to coming to class dressed up like one is going to a wedding party???? This has nothing to do with college years, this has to do with attitudes and their education (at home), and ignorance! I also see people who are not dressed up from head to toe like clowns, and I still say, they are WELL-DRESSED-UP.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 10:18:00 PM, Blogger Mirvat said...

angry, when i go back to lebanon i'm always criticized for being underdressed. my mom nearly had a heart attack when i shaved my head. i make fun of my aunts and my sisters for all the colors and the accessories and the makeup etc.. :) they don't care. they like it.
so what?
my aunts are phds, they're college professors, my sisters are very smart intellectual gals.

i personally am not interested in all the fashion fiasco but it seems that they like that. so what does it matter? i will take the liberty to be comfortable in the way i dress and they are happy with the way they dress. i told my mom, who cares if your shoes match your outfit, she said it made her feel good.

there's an exageration in everything we do, us lebanese :) girls here in college go for a more casual look but equally carefully selected. it's a matter of style i guess. so really it's always the case where most of the population would follow the trend and care for the superficial everywhere.

so i fail to see the importance of the point you try to make.

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 11:09:00 PM, Blogger White Wings said...

what a horrible stereotyping article..
we all seek Lebanon for a breath of freedom, this sexualized view is simply stupid, and one that confirms the exotic view that some closed-minded writers have of the East
thanks for bringing it to our attention

At Sunday, November 05, 2006 11:21:00 PM, Blogger Angry Anarchist said...

Mirvat -

The point I am making is that one cannot have one's cake and eat it too. Fine, they like to wear that, and as I said it is none of my business; however, it is equally my right to look down upon them and/or disapprove of them. For the outsider it is even worse; someone who doesn't know the pathological obsession in this country with looks and such superficial matters, will feel as if he/she has entered a - sorry for the wording but I want to be extremely frank - whorehouse. Again my criticism is not of those who want to dress well, but those who categorize the extremist trends and inappropriate mixture of fashion and occasions under "dressing well".

At Monday, November 06, 2006 12:13:00 AM, Blogger psamtani said...

I think there's a need to distinguish between always being dressed to the nines and being superficial. Some people dress up at all times simply because they don't feel comfortable if they don't 'look right'. Superficial people, on the other hand, judge other people on the way they look. So in my book, Angry Anarchist, you are the one being superficial, because you judge people based on the way they look.

To clarify, I'm pretty laid back myself, I don't really dress up and I do find people who are always dressed up a little insecure - personally, I don't find insecurity that bad a quality. I might crack a joke about it, but I wouldn't call them stupid. Hell, I know women in my program (I'm in grad school) who are always dressed up and doused in perfume, but are still pretty damn intelligent and frankly, are amazing people. On the flipside, I know other women (not from my program, thankfully, there are no stupid women in grad school) who hang out wearing flip flops and matching pajamas, but aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed.

And honestly, as a man, why the hell are you complaining about women being dressed up???

At Monday, November 06, 2006 8:28:00 AM, Blogger Rampurple said...

angry anarchist: i believe you are swaying away from the actual topic. I do know that it looks weird for outsiders to see girls dressed up for college... (to clarify to outsiders reading this, dressed up does not mean cocktail dresses but it means the black dress pants, top, fixed hair, full make up, stilletos, and the LV bags) ... I for one suffered a culture shock when I joined univeristy in 1997. When I visit my university now, I notice that most people dont dress up like that anymore. Most stilletos have been swapped with sneakers and black pants with jeans. Some girls like to dress up, it is their choice and they are free to do so. You seem to have an obsession with flip flops, than you should visit campuses during the summer because you are going to spot flip flops, but naturally not on everyone.

Back to the article at hand. This article only discusses the nightlife. Is it wrong for a girl to dress provocatively while clubbing?? A lady or a man should be free to dress as they wish and not be judged. If this article had interviewed the proper girls, who studied the situation in lebanon and not in a lebanese club, my reaction to it would have been a lot different.

At Monday, November 06, 2006 9:07:00 AM, Blogger Liliane said...

What's funny about this, is that people who will read this article and
aren't Lebanese, will actually believe it.

It is actually the first time I hear that between Ramadan and Christmas
it's the season of immigrant men to come back to Lebanon and girls
seize this season for "hunting".

He asked a 19 year old "rebel teen" and an ex-alcoholic and drug addict
(don't mean to offend, but they don't appear as credible sources) to
quote and back up the ideas in his article?

Good for her, what a brilliant reporter.

At Monday, November 06, 2006 3:46:00 PM, Blogger Mustapha said...

Hey guys, the article is wrong, stupid, overgeneralizing...etc..etc

but as far as i'm concerned, it will get lebanon more tourists that will spend more money on lebanese goods and create more lebanese jobs. Sex does sell, so we might as well move on and turn on the cashier..

The article is wrong, fine, but i think its more culture-shock than malicious-distortion, let's stop tossing its corpse around.

At Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:40:00 PM, Blogger Wassim said...

Mustapha you are write this article is rubbish and has other motives. I think you are wrong in being practical and believing it is ok to whore out your own country. Don't put oil on the fire.

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