11.1.07

Opposition So Creative!!



Because my post hit a very sensitive point which i never meant it to be, because We (lebanese bloggers) respect all people and especially the syrian, because i have no problem appologizing to whomever i offended even if it was not on purpose, I will remove the text and just stick to:
Sorry for the offense
&
Opposition: Mish zabta ma3koun hal marra!!
P.S Hisham why don't you post smthg on your blog?


28 Comments:

At Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:50:00 PM, Blogger laila said...

how insightful M.
please continue to enlighten us with your constructive criticism of the opposition.

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:09:00 PM, Blogger nobilis tobilis said...

Have you ever tried the Adibas shoes?

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:44:00 PM, Blogger Hisham said...

very enlightening 00M (explanation to BOB: this is like 007)
I wonder who will win the lamest post contest on LBF, you or BOB? and the competition is just warming up with the arrival of Faila-blablabla and Nobilis Nobilis (no wait copy/paste but achieving goals = Nobilis Tobilis).

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:49:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

laila,
Can you say that these ads are creative? or that the opposition was successful? While I can understand that you didn't like MMMMMMM's criticism style, but what I can't understand is you agreeing on such steps by the opposition.

MMMMMMM,
the worst thing to do is making funof a nation's culture, regardless of which nation you are targetting. Try living in a country where you are NOT allowed to import foreign goods, and you will start making your very own "fake" ones. This is NOT something to make fun of. And remember that our problem remains with the regime, not the population.

besides, what's with the use of the rainbow (known to be the homosexual organizations' logo) as the opposition logo? Can't we be creative and try NOT to copy/paste? (I agree with nobilis here)

Even if the opposition's demands are fair, but the steps they made are "impotent". Sorry guys, but this is the truth. They are as meaningless and uneffective as March 14th trials to force Lahhoud to resign.

Be creative, especially when you are targetting the Lebanese poplulation; we are very known of our "harsh criticism" of bad ideas.....

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:52:00 PM, Blogger nobilis tobilis said...

Hisham: No need to guess who will win (by default) the lamest comment contest not only on LBF but on the entire Blogosphere :)

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:02:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hisham,
the worst thing anyone can do is exploding on others' faces. Why are you so angry of Nobilis, bob and me? (btw, it's FaiLaSooF, cz it seems you don't know how to write it, or I'll give you the benifit of the doubt, you didn't care to know how it is written)

Relax man, you can always make a post where you can "teach" others how to write good posts, but to just come and make fun of others, NOT a smart move man.....

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:03:00 PM, Blogger Lazarus said...

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm and others, you are free to choose any side you want in this newest version of the lebanese political chasm, but as supposedly educated and intelligent people, the least you can do is not be condescending and disparaging in your criticism.

good luck.

- l.

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:03:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hisham,
the worst thing anyone can do is exploding on others' faces. Why are you so angry of Nobilis, bob and me? (btw, it's FaiLaSooF, cz it seems you don't know how to write it, or I'll give you the benifit of the doubt, you didn't care to know how it is written)

Relax man, you can always make a post where you can "teach" others how to write good posts, but to just come and make fun of others, NOT a smart move man.....

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:22:00 PM, Blogger nobilis tobilis said...

lazarus, maybe it's the surrealism in the Lebanese politics these days.

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:54:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

I wanna ask u something.
Why did u choose to talk about:
"a Kalvin Clein shirt from damascus or a Farreris watch from Halab"?
you know these fake things are found in some famous markets of lebanon and they are not brought from syria. And please don't tell me that you aim something political from it because this is a pure sociological judgement that is spread. And that's too sad because u r mixing between you political opinion about the syrian regime and the syrian people/state.

The "syrians" take the trademark and manufacture all the products by themselves based on certain standards approved by the mother-trademark company.

What are we proud of here? Importing clothes and products from outside instead of taking the trademark and manufacturing them??


About the main topic of the post, Did it occur to you that this is a re-action not an action? That is, somebody teasing the other?? This is not new. If we returned to the famous march 8 and march 14 demonstrations, we find also such actions and reactions found in the shape of slogans and advertisements.
You are really simplifying the whole subject when you look to these advertisements as a sign of “lacking of ideas”.

Anyway, I find it silly from two parties to say that they love life. Who doesn't?

you wanna discuss the "culture of martyrdom and jihadism", go ahead and return to its religious and historical origins and trace them. and remember that both sects (sunni and shiite) believe in it to a certain extent, even if it is hibernated now for the "lebanese sunnis".

A last remark, "esharaka fil watan" was a slogan used by 14 march people in the syrian years. More than that, it was the main slogan promoted as an output for the Taaef agreement. (not to mention “we7dat el maser wel maser”, can u deny that some “first class” 14 march figures used to promote it??)

you wanna discuss and criticize all that, go ahead. but ur post is just a reflection of how the lebanesed media is dealing with the whole issues nowadays.
The question is, do u want this blogger forum to be a reflection of the corrupted media that promotes “childish” political stress release , or u wanna discuss the major issues and problems to reach a certain level of understanding with the "other"??

By the way the comment applies to the “copy/paste” entitled post by nobillis and some previous posts.

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:20:00 PM, Blogger Eve said...

So the opposition loves life too, why is it that shocking! we all want to get to "Rome", but the problem is we're arguing which way to go. I may not agree with their method, but I still think this post is too childish in every kind of way. i would have thought you would use some logical criticism instead of resorting to this absurd making-fun kind of way.

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:28:00 PM, Blogger MMMMMMMMM said...

Very interesting comments, really thank you guys! First, I was not making fun of the syrian Society, mind you my mom is originally syrian! so let's suck it up! As Failasoof said "Try living in a country where you are NOT allowed to import foreign goods, and you will start making your very own "fake" ones" I know ... and this is what i was talking about! are we living in a country where we are not allowed to make New Ads anymore?

So, without making fun of any culture i still found the Kc name hilarious. would i be making fun of the syrian ppl? no!!! do i think that their marketing slogans suck... yes! So let us not take this post to far!

Ba3dena, is making fun of your fellow lebanese by accusing them that they are not living with dignity is better? Again NO!!!

So stop preaching us about respect!
Laila, lazarus, hillz, i appreciate your comments, although i couldn't disagree more!
As for Hisham: Bla Bla wouf wouf as usual!

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:57:00 PM, Blogger Hisham said...

FaiLaSooF (I made an effort this time, and i was able to write your name): I am not angry at anyone. I am just disapointed that the LBF has become a place for posts that make fun of "Adibas shoes" and "Kalvin Clein" shirts (not signe? OMG!!!!). Instead of discussing ideas or having nice and funny blogs (Traffic in Beirut by Eve as an example), we are witnessing more and more illogical and childish comments. Instead of writing about the lack of creativity in the bilboards (which is not true anyway), try discussing what the message behind them is: That living is not just breathing and eating, but includes feeling respected and respecting others; something that a majority of the Shiites and Christians in Lebanon do not feel, seeing that the leaders they elected to represent them are not in office, nor do they take part in any decision making (Note 1: no Shiites do not act as sheep, they are quite smart and able to make their own decisions; Note 2: yes 70% of Christians voted to General Aoun and he will continue to represent them as long as the current parlament is in office, and NO his popularity is not decreasing cause it does not matter if the cousin of a friend of yours voted for him and now dislikes him).
The use of the rainbow is meant to mean multiple colors, or multiple factions of the Lebanese society in case you did not understand that; it is true that it is used by gays, but I did not know they had exclusive rights, cause I still do see rainbows in children books too. And the style of writing is meant to signify the continuation of the struggle that started during the Syrian hegemoney over Lebanon, the struggle to create a Lebanese society where all Lebanese factions feel respected.
If the purpose of the "Copy/Paste" and "Oppostion So Creative!!" posts is meant to be satirical and funny, they are NOT, they are just lame! They follow BOB's attempt to be intellectual in "Futile charge!".

 
At Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:55:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MMMMMMMM,
As long as you made your point and you weren't targetting the poeple, then I apologize for the misunderstanding

hisham,
Thanks alot for the great effort you put in writing my name, I appreciate it :)
LBF should reflect the society's different points of view ragrding current situations. I agree that funny posts are a MUST, but that doesn't mean that we can't talk about what we think is wrong, even if it was in politics. Now let's go through your last comemnt step by step:

rainbow is still there in the kids' books, but the rainbow that is used by the opposition is an EXACT replica of that used by homosexual organizations (even in the angle it is drawn by!), which is why I'm questioning its usage.

Talking about "fake" goods was to support the idea that "originality" will always be better than "faking" and copy/paste used ideas. It has nothing to do with the "not signe!" comment you made.

So you say that FPM has the support of 70% of christians, based on the last elections. This means that you ACKNOWLEDGE the results of the elections, which means that March 14th DOES have the majority of votes in Liban, again based on the same elections. But I keep hearing FPMers saying that the elections were "fake and NOT showing the real representation of the Lebanese people". So does that mean ennu it is valid only when it comes to FPM, but not valid when it somes to March 14th? If you say that the elections are NOT valid, then FPM doesn't have the support of 70% of christians (simple logic).

As for degnity and living in all colors, can you tell me where is the degnity when you elect a parliament and you make a government, that promises you a one-in-a-million summer for tourism, and then HA (though it is part of the government) make a strike on Israel that resuted in a total destruction of the country? What degnity are you talking about when you ally with those who shout out loud "We're strong allies of the Syrian regime", the same regime that spent 15 years suppressing Lebanese, and particularly FPMers?? Can you tell me what degnity you are talking about when you are forced to close your shop for over 40 days because people can't get to your shop due to the continuous riot by the opposition?

I'm against disrespecting any person, regardless of his/her color,religion,nationality or even poltical orientation. And I don't agree when some one's call Shiites, Sunnies, Druze or Christians any bad names, and generalization was and always will be the worst kind of stupid pattern of thinking.

We are discussing "creativity" here, and the political debate could continue endlessly, so no need to go into such deabte now....

 
At Friday, January 12, 2007 2:52:00 AM, Blogger Hisham said...

mmmmmmmm:
because I am not creative; bla bla wouf wouf.
FaiLaSooF:
1. I did not say that funny posts are all that is needed on LBF (read what I said again).
2. Creativity is not what is being discussed here; nor is the shape of the rainbow (your discussion of the "exact replica" and "angle" is wrong and meaningless, focus on the idea behind the billboard). mmmmmm used creativity to take a jab at the opposition.
3. Concerning the last elections:
a. March 14 does not have the majority of the votes, they have the majority of the parliament and that is due to the election law. The FPM and HA+Amal have the majority when dealing with popular vote, keeping in mind that our electoral system is not popular. However, the electoral law was tailored to divide people opposing to the Syrian regime at the time (in 2000) into small groups, added to a slightly larger group of pro-syrians. When those pro-Syrians did a Jumblatt(flip-floping), they had the advantage again, thus the resulting parliament.
a'. The governing system in Lebanon is not parliamentary, despite of having a parliament; it is sectarian. Meaning that the representatives of the three sects are chosen by their sects. Yeah it is crap! But it is what it is, until somebody changes it. Note: the FPM have repeatedly said they will change that.
b. The FPM says that the elections are fake not because the people that voted are fake, but because the representation is fake, again due to the electoral law. Furthermore, the judicial committee that can refute some of the seats aquired by the March 14 has been disabled by them.
4. About dignity:
a. Hariri and Jumblat said the same thing about Syria over the past 15 years, in fact I remember Jumblat saying that the gate for Damascus starts in Mukhtara (not ally but concierge for the Syrian regime). If FPM was not to have an alliance with anyone that was with Syria over the past 15 years, there would be no-one, not even the LF before they imprisoned Geagea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiTYn62Vw1M&mode=related&search=
b. Saad Hariri (because he needed HA votes for the election) supports the resistance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMw6cKGksfM ...
c. The government supports HA and its arms, and its right to fight the Israelis: read the "bayan el 7oukoumi"
d. Riot = "A violent disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons assembled for a common purpose."... so far the only violence I have seen is against the opposition, and one person died.
e. The March 14 are not against the Syrians because of the atrocities the Syrian regime committed over the past 30 years (not 15), in fact most of them were partners in those crimes.

 
At Friday, January 12, 2007 7:55:00 AM, Blogger hashem said...

Shabeb....thanx for making this forum become shi kteer bahdaleh...
The new comers are really "shi besharref".
de3ano hal LBF.

 
At Friday, January 12, 2007 8:50:00 AM, Blogger nobilis tobilis said...

I'm not gonna dwell on this anymore, but when i mentioned Adibas, I thought just that it was funny, knowing that this phenomenon is not a syrian phenomenon. U can find fakes everywhere. But I apologize if I hurted someone. I was just ponting out that things should be original and creative, from a pure esthetic point of view. So again I'm sorry about this.

 
At Friday, January 12, 2007 10:38:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, there are two things to look at this campaign (and the original one).

Mathematically speaking: There is a "faute de principe" which is originally the campaign of "I love life", in my opinion it was silly to say that some people love life meaning that if you're not with us, then you love death.
So, [the opposition] by replying to them, continued that they love life in Lebanon (which is kinda d'uh), with dignity (it's like when we are kids, and kid A will say I am smart, and Kid B wills say "not").. it's a cheap shot.

Creativity wise, well it's funny, if it was an in-house of some school competition.

I think both, instead of spending money of billboards, they can use this money to help orphands, martyrs' families, rebuild things, help this country economically, whatever.

The war of billboards, and any war is plain silly.

The "who has the last word", the "if you're not with us, then you're against us", the "I am more Lebanese than you", the "you're not good, so you're not Lebanese"...

Don't ask someone else to do something you're not doing yourself!

Cheers :)

 
At Friday, January 12, 2007 12:07:00 PM, Blogger nobilis tobilis said...

I agree with you liliane. This logic of elimination from both sides is not healthy. Saying that "I love life" implies that others hate life and on the other hand, telling the crowds that they are "Achraf al nass" implying that the others are pro-Israeli or Zionist agents.

 
At Friday, January 12, 2007 2:05:00 PM, Blogger MMMMMMMMM said...

Hashem,
Since you are talking about new comers, I will assume that you were referring to me. As I recall, you have commented on all 3 previous posts I have done, and I do not recall that you had any problem with the quality of the postings although they were clearly controversial. However if you did not like my latest post which I totally understand, there is no need to generalize the issue, and this does not make LBF shi bahdaleh!

 
At Friday, January 12, 2007 3:51:00 PM, Blogger MarxistFromLebanon said...

mmmmmmm

may be I am a new comer to this LBF :P

besides: "The March 14 are not against the Syrians because of the atrocities the Syrian regime committed over the past 30 years (not 15), in fact most of them were partners in those crimes."

Ironically I tend to disagree with 30 years :P, that is a long story, but I will write a post on it :)

Meantime, let us remember that it was the Lebanese Front (with S. Frangieh Sr.) who invited the Syrians into Lebanon and it was Khaddam bragging that he will not even let a kitchen knife left for the PLO :). If you think of it, our history is nothing but fiascos

MFL

 
At Friday, January 12, 2007 6:22:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hashem,
thank you very much for you your lovely comment on the "new commers". A very mature thing to say :)

Liliane,
you are more than right, the money should have been used in much much better things

hisham,
political deabte is NOT something you can do in "commenting on posts". And I'd love to have a chance to have such a debate with you some time

 
At Friday, January 12, 2007 7:52:00 PM, Blogger MMMMMMMMM said...

MFL U have a point of view! i am trying to put the past 30 years behind me!!!

waiting for your post! your last one was very controversial!!

P.S we both know you are not a new comer :D

 
At Friday, January 12, 2007 10:29:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's happening here on this forum is really the miniature of what's happening in Leb!!!!!
I guess you are all educated, intelligent and polite people and that's not the best way to argue about a silly campaign from both sides. There's more important things than to proove who "loves life more" or who is "more lebanese" like liliane mentionned.
Stop being so defensive in ur comments, that's not the best way to impose ur point of views!!!

 
At Saturday, January 13, 2007 10:41:00 AM, Blogger francois said...

taken from i love life web site http://www.lebanon-ilovelife.com/Sub.aspx?ID=144&MID=85&PID=81:
"We speak from a vantage point, where a vibrant array of our private businesses, independent professional bodies, voluntary associations, schools and colleges, the free press, and other professional groups can make a difference, considering that political struggle in Lebanon’s public life is playing a major role.

We refuse to get stuck in the past, even more so in the present political Babel dialogue and myopic struggles.

Citizens in communities across the country feel that representative institutions are inaccessible and out of touch. Individuals find themselves marginalized and disadvantaged, thus reluctant to participate in the traditional political system and its corresponding structures.

The I Love Life campaign aims at offering a new opportunity for active citizens to remain:

- autonomous - able to make choices and to conduct their personal and social life as individuals and as responsible members of society;
- supportive - able to show genuine concern for others, to act and interact with and for them;
- responsible - able to take responsibility for their actions, keep commitments and complete what they undertake;
- committed - able to assert themselves in respect of values, a cause or an ideal, and to act accordingly."

when i m reading this i see that i love life doesnt belong to the majority and to the opposition, moreover they critizise the current system.

of course, some people that thought i love life was on their side, do not like the new campaign thinking that the opposite camp launched a counter offensive.

shitty how closed mind people think, the problem as kry underline is with their own mind, they cannot cross any border they are themselves putting in place to get united, they are just searching to get appart and to fight

 
At Saturday, January 13, 2007 2:07:00 PM, Blogger MarxistFromLebanon said...

Dear Francois,

Just for the fact that a section formed a hegemony on an idea, it longer stands. If the "I love Campaign" was triggered by independents from both camps or representatives of both camps at the same time, then the campaign is credible but sadly, everything is bi-polar in this country. Actually because I attack both camps, 8th of March accuse me to be 14th and vice versa even though I only expose historically their facts (specially after launching the seperating the Myth from Reality series).

A small example would be last year when I was co-building an anti-WTO coalition among the NGOs and activists. The WTO is Seniora's plan which is a fact worse than anything else for Lebanon in the long-run. We initiated this activity, and then some go accuse us of being 8th of March (even though we were talking strictly economics and the procedures of the GATS and GATT) while the 8th of March activists wanted to be in because none of the leaders tackled that dimension. Ironically, WTO means each major party getting a piece of the cake. Everything is by-polar, but the good news is we kept that movement free from all.

Dear MMMMMM

Actually to the LBF sort of I am, but moving to my point, as a marxist, I believe that the present is due to the past. This means if you check each leader (14th or 8th) you would notice how all are full of crap and all are thinking in terms of short-run rather the real solution. This means history should be in terms of facts. For example, why Hezbollah are powerful means we got to dwell on the history of how the Shiites historically were neglected by their governments through out the history (among the reasons). Taking a look at the on-going sectarianism means why secular movements were fought both by the majority of the parties and why most of them opposed civil marriage...etc

Sorry for the long post :) afterall I am just a beginner in everything ;)

 
At Saturday, January 13, 2007 3:42:00 PM, Blogger francois said...

dear marxist

i have nothing to add, i share this vision of unfortunate bipoliration of the political scene and unfortunatly this vision lead to extremization of the population and to civil strife if we add the confessional dimension embedded into the political system.
By myself, i am not a marxist, on contrary i am honestly defining myself to be on the right wing of the political scene but moreover i am leaving religion into the individual sphere. it is something that we do not have to share, but something that has to remain personnal.
However when it comes to a existing system we cannot easely change, i prefer to choose the best among all the worst we have, and to judge not those that are not in power or in an executive place but those that reached the power and are not making the policy that has to be implemeted in my opinion. This is why i m currently tuff against our current majority and disappointed by our cedar's revolution that i think is incomplete. We, youngs, that reached this revolution, gave back power when we should have been those reaching power to be able to change the system.

Now about the economics, i believe globalization is a good thing as a matter of what we call "developpement durable", long terme development, embedding into your growth system, ecological parameters, sociological parameters etc... However theses models are too complicated to be put in place especially in lebanon.
About specifically the saniora plan. It is not the answer for our problems.
I wrote about it on my personal blog in french if u want to see it
http://lebanon.typepad.com/frencheagle/2007/01/beyrouth_vautil.html
http://lebanon.typepad.com/frencheagle/2007/01/le_radeau_de_la.html

 
At Saturday, January 13, 2007 4:00:00 PM, Blogger MarxistFromLebanon said...

I will check it out Francois, but from my side, research showed me that corporate globalization is a disaster, but other than that it can be good (check Barber's Mcworld Versus Jihad)

as for choosing between two extremes, I personally can't choose because both are riding the back of the people. I mean if we want to encourage Secularism, how can we when a PM brings the High Mufti to the governmental palace or an FPM supporter screaming: "We are the real christians".... so for me both need to be attacked... but we will debate as time unfolds :)

Cheerios

MFL

 

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