13.11.06

The masks are finally off

The charad is over. Hezballoh, Berri and Aoun have finally revealed their true intention. They do not want the formation of an International Tribunal to judge the criminals implicated in the assassination of Late Prime Minster Rafik Hariri.

No matter what Hezbollah’s arguments are or what they claim the situation is, this is the second time they withdraw from the government over the same issue: The International Tribunal.

The reasons behind their refusal are secondary. In any legal system any one who defend, hide or aide a criminal will be considered an accessory to that crime, therefore “J’Accuse” Hezbollah, Berri and Aoun as accessories in the assassination of Prime Minster Rafik Hariri.

Hezbollah just made the first step down the very slippery slop to civil war. And for what? To defend Bashar Assad? If they cared that much about Lebanon and knew how much the International Tribunal is important for many Lebanese why didn’t they sign on for the International Tribunal and then resigned! It would have only taken a day…

J’accuse…

38 Comments:

At Monday, November 13, 2006 6:39:00 PM, Blogger jij said...

Walla ya bobby you're confusing me. First Hezbollah protest and stay in the government, and you say they're blowing hot air and that they should resign if they don't like the government. Now they resign and you switch from 'peace' to 'J'accuse' ('j'accuse'... ha ha ha). Make up your mind my friend, people are reading, you cant keep jumping around and changing what you want. You have a responsibility towards your readers after all. You seem to think that the international tribunal is all what counts in Lebanon; get over yourself ya habibi. Go ahead and govern alone if you can; Appoint Ali el Amine and Mona Fayyad as ministers (hahahaha). if you can't, time for a reality check. I personally think that the next step for the opposition is to resign from parliament. Let's see what you guys will do then.

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 6:53:00 PM, Blogger hashem said...

"International Tribunal is important for the Sunni’s"
hmmm....last time i checked, Hariri was called Mr. Lebanon....
don't restrict him to any sect after he dies ya jama3a...
this language is just disgusting, Bob....
3ayb...bekaffi mtajarah beldamm....ayya damm....

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 7:07:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

so discussing the details of the draft (which can be used in the way usa wants as UN is very independent) becomes involvement in the crime??
ba3dein 7ayyartna ya bob, marra inta w 14 azar u call berri "patriotic" and now he is one of the accessories..
i'm really lost here..
ur posts r becoming like future television (or became long ago..)
I advice you trace the "ethical" freedom movements which can be summarized by happy birthdays (for the dead) and musical awards festivals held near the grave of martyr rafic hariri; and not to forget the kids that are brought infront of cameras to the grave and the on going live show of unity (cross and quran); A unity that you questioned its existence before ya bob :P

I feel that i'll be accused of killing hariri twice lol

ba3dein 3adeh yjeebo ghazeh elyoussef, mayyit min zamein la ykoon wazir aw ne2ib :P

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 7:33:00 PM, Blogger jij said...

no no hilal, ali el amine and mouna fayyad, I insist.

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 7:37:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

6ayyib ma fee ma7al ya jij.. 3andak 5 ma7alleit..
bisei3o bisei3o :))
:P

last joke:
"14 march was surprized by berri's "decision" "

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 7:37:00 PM, Blogger Lazarus said...

seriously, i have no idea what the sentence: "the International Tribunal is important for the Sunni’s" means.

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 7:39:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

right.. especially when u hear that from an athiest ;)

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 9:33:00 PM, Blogger BOB said...

No one even tried to defend HA and say that they care about who killed Hariri... At least no one is hiding behind their fingers anymore good

Yalla point by point...

One, yes unfortunately Hariri's death seems to be important only to sunni's as most eloquently portrayed by jij, who so nicely explained that “You seem to think that the international tribunal is all what counts in Lebanon; get over yourself ya habibi.”
My friend now the International Tribunal is all what it counts because those who killed him are not judge Lebanon will be forever targeted and attacked, under the thumb of Syrians/Iranians. Maybe you do not care, but I at least would not want to live in fear like I did when the Syrians were here, and would not want to see any more brave souls killed (I am here referring specially to samir assir and George Hawi)

Hashem

Your condescending tone ill befits you. The Shiite never cared for Hariri and never will. When he died all Lebanon closed but for the Dahia (personal observation) and they thanked Syria and gifted Rustem Ghazali with a machine gun after he killed Rafik Hariri… Talk about caring…

Now asking me to defend what the 14th of March said is useless and beside the point. I am not anyone mouth piece or press representative. Ask me about what I wrote…

Your comment about trading in blood is so offensive that I will just ignore it. I will not lower myself to such a level.


Jij

Hot air it was and hot air it still is. But the timing is so damning that one cannot but wonder why they do fear the international tribunal so.

Now I said that they should resign if they do not like the government but to do that just before the International tribunal is going to be voted on is either stupid beyond measure or reeks of culpability. If they agreed on it, like they said in the national dialogue why didn’t they wait a day agree on it and then resign…

Bytheway (hahahaha) you (hahahaha) are (hahahahaha) so funny to talk to.

The reality check will come when you will have to live back under the Syrian cause frankly if I was head of 14th of march I would say “take it all and deal with the consequences” and then you try to rule with 57 MPs (now that would be funny to watch Hahahaha) but the thing is for some commentators here (not specifically aimed at you Jij) it is very easy to walk the high ground and teach us lessons while they live in a democratic society (which they can’t stop denigrating and cursing) away from any fear of being blown up and having to watch you country destroyed because some lunatic has his own agenda…

Hilal

Have you read the draft?
If yes please do explain how the US will use it!
It is limited both in its scope and time frame…
Again here very nice alluring to the dead and birthday really sensitive, I just would love to rave on some other birthday and death celebration that has been going on for 1400 years but I will not, try Hashem he is good at these things. And you are lucky that not everyone goes stomping on the streets breaking everything and rampaging away whenever their leaders are caricatured… maybe future movement guys should start doing that?
and then personnal attacks...how many times hilal...tsk i do not even care anymore...but the image it gives you...tsk

Finally as always peace, hoping that no matter what there is still some small chance for it

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 9:40:00 PM, Blogger hashem said...

"The Shiite never cared for Hariri and never will"

Bob...seriously....you're one of the most secterian and closed-minded people i've met on the lebanese blogsphere.
It's because of people like you our country is going this turmoil.
I should have known better than reading ur posts.
End of conversation. I don't speak to sectarians....

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 9:59:00 PM, Blogger jij said...

why didn’t they wait a day agree on it and then resign…
hahahahaha ya allah ya bob...

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:00:00 PM, Blogger BOB said...

hashem

my mistake most shiite. But still i stand by what i said. you do not like what i said then explain to me why HA and Berri (who represent most shiite) did not participate in hariri's funeral, or in today council of minsters...
Hide behind your finger, this is our reality, and to change it you have to accept it...

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:01:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

oh bob wants to talk about the 1400 years aka islam.. let me see future movement.. sunni.. wahhabi.. saudi arabia.. egypt..
LOL
and u really care for my image? tsk, u should for ur image when you mention hashem ;)

and ya bob, u seem u never lived in 6aree2 el jdeedeh before to see how things go on there..

jij, shoo ra2yak n7o66 el jouzou bil 7ookoomeh kamein?

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:02:00 PM, Blogger Lazarus said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:04:00 PM, Blogger BOB said...

jij

i m sooo happy your happy
keep it up...
way to go...
u offer really deep insight and a meangfull discussion...
right the thing we need at the moment...

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:06:00 PM, Blogger Hisham said...

I liked it a lot better when BOB was prevented from posting on this site! less childish and completely illogical posts!

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:09:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

hisham,
bob was never prevented on this site, and he can assure that..

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:09:00 PM, Blogger jij said...

Thx Bob. By the way, just for clarification, is the tribunal only important to "atheist secular" Sunnis, or to Sunnis in general? The public would like to know.

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:10:00 PM, Blogger Hisham said...

well he should be then... prevented that is...

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:12:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

yeh and what do the "atheist secular" Sunnis think about the wahhabi saudi arabia and its 1400 years birthdays..

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:13:00 PM, Blogger BOB said...

If you read on you would have understood
the sunnis are affectionaly linked to the issue, for them there is no compromise about it.

now for lebanon as a whole the importance of the international tribunal is "the International Tribunal is all what it counts because those who killed him are not judge Lebanon will be forever targeted and attacked, under the thumb of Syrians/Iranians. Maybe you do not care, but I at least would not want to live in fear like I did when the Syrians were here, and would not want to see any more brave souls killed (I am here referring specially to samir assir and George Hawi)"
and this applies to all lebanese. Now if the rest see that or not that is open to discussions.

again my "sectarianism" grouping, communtarism is a reflection of the situtation on the ground.
To solve any problem you need to accept it first.
if like Hilal you deny its exsistence and think i caused it!! than it is usless to discuss. i am not afraid to call things in their name or point out what i think is happening on the ground.

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:20:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

yeh.. i am very used to hide behind my finger.. so what's going on around the grave is "ethical" and my note about that is not "sensitive" ??
Who's denying here ya bob?

and kissing abdallah's hand shou? yeh.. who's denying? :P

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:22:00 PM, Blogger BOB said...

hehe

yalla anything more personal you guys have to say?

Hisham

in your dreams!

PS: how open you are to opposite views and how much you want to preserve freedom of speech even to childish and illogical writers is a testament to your values!

hilal

whabisim is absolutely abhorrent, condemnable and should be banned!
as all religions?
Anything else

jij

Glad you are happy refer to my previous comment...

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:27:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

lok ya bob 3am t2elleh la ileh, roo7 2ool la sa3d :P

what about the grave? ;)

maybe future should make a 24/7 live broadcasting from there.. you know, like star academy..

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 10:38:00 PM, Blogger BOB said...

hilal

you asked me and i answered, and again (believe it or not I really do not care) I speak for myself.
If you are trying to irk me it won't work, au contraire you are making me laugh. I am talking about a crisis that might lead to civil war and you keep on talking about unrelated issues...i will use a line Jij and say hahahaha...it really shows your deep and thoughtfull rational

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 11:16:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

lok ya bob , iam talking about something aired everyday on televisions.. it is a sort of political declarations around a grave..
do u find this ethical?
ba3dein, keef all religions are banned and u support fture movement?
explain that..

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 11:30:00 PM, Blogger BOB said...

hilal

lesser of two evils
again you r off subject. I am talking about Hezbollah and their vehement attacks against the international tribunal. you want to critisize Future movement write a post about it...

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 11:39:00 PM, Blogger Eve said...

guys 3an jad.. the number of "hahaha", "lol" and winks is too much for a post that isn't supposed to be funny in the first place. really it's annoying and degrades your discussion!

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 11:52:00 PM, Blogger Rabie_Halad said...

Sorry I didn't want to mention this but what did Hariri ever do for the south and and dahiyeh anyway? why would they stay open when he died? Would the north close if Nasrallah was assasinated? BoB I believe you are the next Jounblat, nothing to be proud of. And please stop making Hezballah sound so bad...'vehement attacks' what vehement attacks?

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 11:53:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

ethics (unrelated to HA) is always off the subject..

 
At Monday, November 13, 2006 11:54:00 PM, Blogger BOB said...

merci Eve!

I was doing it as a response and to point out how annoying it was.

But anyway i shouldn't have and i apologize, but i confess i had to do something to point out how silly it was...

 
At Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:27:00 AM, Blogger BOB said...

hilal

off the subject of my post. again you want to raise them do!!!

Rabie

good you just agreed with me that most fo the shiia do not care about Rafik hariri, too bad you just got yourself on Hashem's blocked list...

now all Lebanese, but for most of the Shiia, mourned Hariri; for me that is important. HA is bad and their vehment attacks are very plain in their actions (twice withdrawing fromt he council of minsters when the subject of the international tribunal was brought up)

 
At Tuesday, November 14, 2006 1:23:00 AM, Blogger jij said...

So let’s sum up Bob’s (and March 14's) views:
1. If you oppose the government, then you are working towards the destruction of the country. Worse, you are an accomplice in Hariri’s murder. No, you actually murdered Hariri with your own hands.
2. The opposition is fine, as long as they’re really not an opposition. They can’t take any steps towards gaining more power (reality check: that is the objective of any political party). They can oppose us, but then they have to sit home and be quiet. They are not allowed to treat us as grown ups and challenge us and question our performance. They are welcome to resign if they wish, but only after they’ve given us all we want, and voted on all the rules we want to pass. Afterwards, we’ll run the country on our own, and everybody will be happy.
3. Anyone against us is in the Syrian-Iranian axis and actively trying to implement a Farsi agenda in Lebanon. The opposition are foreign agents. Our relation to the United States, France and Germany, , our dubious position during the war, our apparent ease at making any concession to the international community when asked to, our complete subordination to the West with all which that entails, all those are not on the table for discussion. They do not count as valid issues. The only players in the region are Syria and Iran. These are the only two sides undermining freedom and democracy.
4. How dare Michel Aoun work towards becoming president? Why doesn’t he just retire from politics and hand us the country? It’s very annoying to have to share power with others. And who does he think he is, allying with Hezbollah? We have the right to isolate him and give him whatever we see suitable. He is not allowed to engage in politics and things of that sort.
5. Any person who is concerned at the direction in which March 14 is taking the country is a traitor. Comparisons to Irak are not valid. Questioning of the American agenda is not acceptable. Lebanon is an island, not affected by what happens around it. Wondering about the direction in which Israeli politics are going, and being concerned about our protection from future interventions does not amount to more than mere demagogy.
6. It really does not matter that Israel launched a war on Hezbollah a couple of months ago and that we barely stopped short of sheering the IDF. It does not really matter that the international side that backs us was hit with a setback; these kind of things have no consequences. So what, they tried to get rid of Hezbollah and we placed our bets on that happening, and then it didn’t happen. How dare Hezbollah treat us suspiciously now? They should act like nothing happened. Again, treating us like grown-ups is not welcome.
7. Corruption, the economy, defense, employment, education, etc... Those are all off the table. Yuo can't blackmail us with any of these trvialities when there is something much more important at hand: Helping the Americans to pressure Iran and Syria with all means possible. This is the best way to guarantee our happiness.

 
At Tuesday, November 14, 2006 3:20:00 AM, Blogger Mirvat said...

what jij said :)

bob, it's sad that hariri was killed but how come the weight of that political incident is still the same to you after the july war? after all these people died? to say that the tribunal is important to sunnis is ridiculous. when hariri was alive he was criticized by sunnis and shias and christians alike which is what we do, as lebanese. and when he died, he was mourned by all.
if you say his murder going unpunished is humiliating to the sunnis, what about nasrallah having to hide and being called a terrorist? how does that feel to the shia. and to think the tribunal is symbolic to our standing up against external powers, why don't you write about holding israel accountable for the war crimes in lebanon also? why aren't you equally offended by the american/israeli influences?

as a lebanese (being sunni doesn't add to the equation) i feel humiliated when a politician like hariri could be eliminated, i feel humiliated when nasrallah (one of our most respected religious figures, and yes i'm an atheist too) gets treated like a terrorist, but mostly i feel humiliated when hundreds of my people get wasted like animals without accountability.

i'm not going to talk about politics after all you're the one who told me before to stay out of political debates and to leave it to the 'experts' like you since it's what 'you do' :)

i also think hashem raised a very valid point and i'm surprised he was attacked in that manner. hashem happens to respect hariri (the father) even more than i do. i think you missed his point and maybe you should go back and read what he said.

 
At Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:18:00 AM, Blogger Rhiannon said...

I don't know much about Hariri. I'm certainly not up on Lebanese politics. In my family, I have heard good things and bad things about Hariri, but mostly good things. When he was murdered, I heard even better things about Hariri. (I guess that's the way it goes sometimes).

Some of my family members and I strongly believe Hariri's death is an israel/USA invention.

I said it many times on many other blogs. They [israel-USA] stood to gain a lot from his death.

Would the invasion of Lebanon had been possible if Syria hadn't pulled out?

Would Syria have been pressured to leave Lebanon had Hariri not been assassinated?

Regardless, I agree with Mirvat and especially with Hashem when he says:

"Bob...seriously....you're one of the most secterian and closed-minded people i've met on the lebanese blogsphere.
It's because of people like you our country is going this turmoil.
I should have known better than reading ur posts.
End of conversation. I don't speak to sectarians...."

It sounded so good I had to post it again.

 
At Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:09:00 AM, Blogger anny said...

salut bobby ... so you are actually one of those who are still looking for the truth or "al haqiqqaaa" about hariri's death... not just that but relying on the international communitee to whisper it in your ears .... he he he he he ... that is funny ... i thought those people do not exist anymore apart from future TV and their count down or count up ...,...
ya sadiki ...listen i can tell you the truth if you want .. no need to go to cyprus or ask the UN to figure it out for you ... and let's say you know the truth so what? will allllllllll our problems in lebanon be solved hen you know the truth ??? izza heik OK ...go dig !!!!

 
At Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:15:00 AM, Blogger hashem said...

Mirvat,
don't bother. In Bob's answer to hilal, and not to me, and in an attempt to mockingly refer to what shiits do in Ashoura, he used me as an example only because it happened I belong to that sect....a pure secterian comment that made me sick, and wonder if should pass on this respectful forum.
Anyway, I'm so nauseated, and have to admit, so surprised. I thought better of him when I met him back home.
bassita....i'm just so worried about our country if that's how we interact...

 
At Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:40:00 AM, Blogger Rabie_Halad said...

Sorry Bob but I'm shia when Hariri got killed I dressed all in black went down to solidaire with a bouqet of flowers and put a prayer for him, I don't wish death on nobody. No doubt about it you are correct most shias do not give two shits about Hariri, they care about Nasrallah you know why? cuz Nasrallah does for them Hariri didn't. To them Hariri wasted the country's money on cement...why because they didnt recieve any positives from Hariri's building the solidaire or all those hotels. Anyways I believe it was the Americans and the Jews that killed Hariri, why because they are still intervening in our country before then and after, 3rd of all let the man rest in peace if you love him so much, and start thinking of the future not of March 14, because we are in a much deeper hole now. We are at the face of another civil war, instead of blaming this man and that man, how about we find a way to bring it all together, because as we all know Lebanon is mixed with a bunch of different ethnic groups, there has to be some kind of middle point everyone can reach to. And finally HA are good, without HA we would be under the jews, we would be Palestine, we would be Iraq.

 
At Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:20:00 PM, Blogger dov_81 said...

wow jij, u hit the bulls eye, dead center.


i like harriri, and his death is trajic , no doubt, on the other hand....its sad how quickly others who died were forgotten in less than a month,,,(like its ok to call so and so, but not ok to kill so)... we needed a change long ago,after the very first assassinations, since then our problems have compounded and left us in a big hole to climb out of.

i cant but feel that Siniora,harrir jr and jumblat are out on a vendetta.. and oh, how id love to see someone jailed so we can all get on with our lives,,,but unfortunately,these mega-assassinations never get solved, and be sure ,whoever is behind it has covered all tracks and even killed/locked up any accomplices or potential squealers...

it possible israel/U.S are in on it but frankly, syria is looking more and more suspicious specially after the last suicide,, where do we go from here...

the best way out from here, is for siniora to re-unite the govn soon with Aoun,ha,berri and give them the third,,,the U.N tribunal would have been formed and Ha-Aoun-berri would look neutral should syria be charged with anything.. minimizing any backlash

 

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