15.7.06

The ship


I received this email form my family.
Although it is a bit personal, I will give my self the right to post it here:
Dearest,
thank u for thinking about us.all family ok.they points
todestroying all bridges,media,airport ,highways,and most of all to broke
oursouls,to broke the only arab decent victory over the arabs enemy.
it'sunequittable war.BUT H.NASRA.. appeared on tv to say:"they want it an
openwar!Let it be! Now look at the sea: the battleship that bombed
ourhomes,tv's,airport.. will burn NOW"
All lebanese rushed to balconies and roofs : And BY GOOOOD !
we sawit being hitten,and suddenly it was on flames
Dearest,
It was A GLORIOUS MOMENT: suddenely fireworks hit thesky, all
were clapping and shouting on the balconies,rejoicing just likemondial.
Nothing will be the same to our enemy after this.

33 Comments:

At Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:13:00 PM, Blogger Ramz said...

congratulations.

1 helicopter pad + 4 sailor.Is it worth 10 lebanese lives?

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:17:00 PM, Blogger talnik said...

"Nothing will be the same to our enemy"
Nor to you, unfortunately.

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:30:00 PM, Blogger Ghassan said...

Are you serious when you proudly post a personal note that glorifies death and destruction? How in the world can you then ask for peace when you glorify violence? When I dehumanize others then I have demonized myself. We might disagree about the propotionality of the Israeli invasion but by God we must have the backbone to to stand up and say that the blood bath has resulted from the failure of the Lebanese state to reign in a private militia, actually we have outsourced the most important function of the state, border security, to an unelected armed group.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch and believe me there ain't no such thing as a free sovereignty. Freedom is not free, it is dearly expensive. If we wish to establish a free , democratic and secular state then we must be willing to pay the price, in this case to have the courage to tell HA that its policies and tactics will not be acceptable ifas long as it wishes to be exclusive and as long as it operates outside the law of the land. HA has to change radically, it must stop being HA if it is to participate in the Lebanese democratic project. Opposing the destruction to infrastructure damage is not a very high price to pay but even if you believe that it is then that should not be used as an excuse to lend support to those that have highjacked the country and were the direct cause of the death and destruction. I will even suggest to you that HA was hoping that the Israeli reaction will be a severe one because that suits its purposes of justifying its existense and the aims of its mastersin Tehran and Damascus. Please don't shed alligator tears for Lebanon because it has been nothing else but thje misguided policies of HA that have caused this destruction that you bemoan.

Afree and sovereign Lebanon has not existed for decades. A truly democratic Lebanon has never existed. I would have thought that the youth , those under 30, would want to create a better world, a truly modern nation state and that they would have the courage to call things by their names instead of falling on old useless cliches and bankrupt slogans.

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:31:00 PM, Blogger J.B. said...

Does glorifying death and vengeance make your case any stronger?

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:37:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

I posted the email as it is..
for ur questions, u can ask people their under seige..
ghassan, ur logical thinking doesn't work in such conditions..
people are humiliated there..
i wonder if u r all humiliated, will u be able to think as u commented??
1 additional things:
these r soldiers seiging a country.. not civilians..
they are expected to face such things..
or must we send them a bunch of flowers?

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:37:00 PM, Blogger Shmulik said...

You should be happy than to hear an egyptan cargo ship was sunk. Another glorius victory for the resistance (sarcasm).

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:43:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

"HA has to change radically"

ghassan. that's not democracy,
or u should ask all te extermists in usa and france and israel and arab countries to change..
this will be alot of work..

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:56:00 PM, Blogger Eitan said...

ghassan, well said.

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:59:00 PM, Blogger Eve said...

after what I've heard & seen of people burning alive, no, I will not weep over the Israeli ship, and I will not pity the soldiers that were firing raids at us. as simple as that. and he who is shocked, let him be shocked. ylemmo klekishon w yen2el3o yhello 3anna

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:04:00 PM, Blogger Olga said...

“these r soldiers seiging a country.. not civilians..
they are expected to face such things..”

No solder are expected to face a kidnapping. A spatially on a border with a country that hadn’t declared war.

“or must we send them a bunch of flowers?”

You must not touch them (surprising as that sounds).

“i wonder if u r all humiliated, will u be able to think as u commented??”

My country is being boomed from Lebanon a few kilometers from my home. However, I don’t feel any joy thinking that civilians in Lebanon suffer.

“or u should ask all te extermists in usa and france and israel and arab countries to change..”

Those “extremists” were elected democratically. HA wasn’t.

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:16:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

olga,
hahahha.
i wonder if u compare what r u under whith what lebanese people r facing..
u r pathetic..
and yeh..
HA was elected deomcratically in lebanese elections.. same as other lebanese parties u like..
and for ur surprise the lebanese parties u feel u might have a possible collaboration with them used hizballah huge people suppoert to reach the parlaiment..
how's that?
and olga..
if fear to die..
we don't fear it..
u know why? cause we have diginity ..

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:22:00 PM, Blogger J.B. said...

Feeling no sympathy is a far cry from praising God for the glorious destruction of your enemies.

These are soldiers who want to be there just as much as you want them to.

But they serve a cause, and they defend an idea.

There is no glory in death or in vengeance. Taking joy in the death of others is morbid and sick. I pity any soldier who does that.

I have no sympathy for those who praise the word of this man, one who has sworn to destroy my people and my nation.

The person who wrote that letter is suffering terribly. Her people are endangered and her coutnry is being torn apart by foreign forces. Does that excuse her words? I doubt she feels the need to make excuses.

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:28:00 PM, Blogger Ghassan said...

Hilal, I do not wish to make this into a personal exchange but I feel compelled to ask one more question that your response begs for. I always thought that the most important characteristic of homo sapiens is that they have evolved to the level whereby they are expected to think rationally and logically under all circumstances. Isn't logic and application of reason what distinguishes us from the apes?

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:31:00 PM, Blogger Lycanthropy said...

I see that the delusional thinking is contagious.

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:33:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

lebanon is under seige ghassan..
we can't be logical all the time..
as for j.b.,
it's not a person.. they r alot of people..
i woder if that was the israeli position in 73 or 67 or even 52 (when they attacked egypt)..
i wonder if it was the case when mosad traces palestinian resistors all around the world to kill them..
just wondering..

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:39:00 PM, Blogger Olga said...

“olga,
hahahha.”

Glad to see that you laughing. Maybe things better that you chose to describe them 

“i wonder if u compare what r u under whith what lebanese people r facing..”

Why not? Bombs are bombs. They don’t have nationality.

“HA was elected democratically in lebanese elections.. same as other lebanese parties u like..
and for ur surprise the lebanese parties u feel u might have a possible collaboration with them used hizballah huge people suppoert to reach the parlaiment..
how's that?”

So, what you saying actually are that when NA declared a war on Israel, he did on the name of Lebanon government? If so, why are so surprised and angry about Israeli attacks? We are on war. You democratically chose your government that led you to this.

“if fear to die..
we don't fear it..
u know why? cause we have diginity ..”

Good for you.

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:49:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

olga.
don't mix things. yes hizballah was elected dimocratically yes..
hizballah might done a strategic mistake fom some people view..
but lebanon is under seige.. and i wil stand with him although i don't agree with him in politics and in religion..
no bombs r not bombs..
i wnder if this will be ur opinion if the situation is reversed and somebody is destroying ur infrastructure what hell is the reason..
one last thing:
I exclude "u r pathetic" from my comment and keep on my "hahahah".
and good fro me? yes good for me.. cause when i have diginity and believe in an idea which is right for me, i go to the end defending it..
maybe this is not how u deal with it..

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:03:00 PM, Blogger J.B. said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:06:00 PM, Blogger J.B. said...

Hilal,
Israel's position in 67 (when we were attacked on all fronts by neighbouring arab countries) 73 (when Egypt invaded our then captured territories in the Sinai peninsula) is entirely irrelevant.

That government is no longer in office.

Nor do I understand the meaning of these wars as argument.

As for 1952, I humbly apologise. I don't know what that refers to. I've never been too good at history.

Look, every time the IDF assasinates a terrorist leader in the Palestinian Authority, there are cries of "Death to Arabs" and "The only good arab is a dead arab". This happens during terrorist attacks, as well.

And on the opposite side, "itbah al yahud (please forgive the transliteration)" is a common cry at Hamas rallies.

There is no justification for glorifying the death of others, don't you understand? To say that this fight is necessary... well, I wouldn't presume to say that. I don't know if I would have taken that same action myself were it my decision. But I know it's a f**king tough call to make. I don't envy anyone in the position of our defense minister and his military commanders. I know that they are not bloodthirsty homicidal conspiratorial maniacs. I know that they are using force to defend this country from foreign attacks.

I do think such a show of force was necessary, to a degree. Negotiating the release of the hostages -- HOSTAGES -- in exchange for thousands of known criminals would have put us in a position of complete submission. Every crazy power-hungry zealot would line up in a queue trying to kidnap our soldiers.
But it is time for a cease fire. Time to begin talks with the Lebanese government on how we work through this. Not a negotiation. We will not negotiate for the lives of our soldiers. Their return should be a condition for the continued cessation of hostilities. But in addition, we could do so much.


Yes, they're soldiers. Yes, they're trained for combat. But come on. That doesn't make them a legitimate target just for the sake of pure antagonism. There is no way to justify that. These young men were trained to secure the border and protect the lives of civilians in our country. And obviously they failed. But why were they even being tested? Against whom was Hizballah protecting itself?

We weren't even AT WAR with Lebanon until this week. What the hell happened?

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:10:00 PM, Blogger Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

Ghassan,

Hezbollah is in its element. To paraphrase Mao, Hezbollah lives in Mayhem like the fish lives in the water. For people like me, defending the country is to prevent its destruction. For the Hezbollah, defending the country means shelling Israeli cities. This is a negative approach by negative people.

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:24:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

j.bi,
ship was attacked infront of lebanese shore in lebanese water..
ur border stops on ur border, not in destroying infrastructure..
now hizballah went beyond borders yup.. but israel reacted by attacking civilian and infrastructure
as for 52,
israel attacked egypt with assisitance of old usa and france and uk
this is an empty circle..
we can't go on like that..
what is done in lebanon is called TERROR for the sake of 2 soldiers
repeat.. 2 soldiers..
yes number matters..
israel is destroying a country..
i am supporting my seiged people no matter how much i don't agree hizballah.
sadly in war u can't be in the middle.. u r either with one side or with the other.. no middl solution..
that's how things go on..

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:43:00 PM, Blogger Olga said...

“hizballah might done a strategic mistake fom some people view..
but lebanon is under siege.. and i wil stand with him although i don't agree with him in politics and in religion..”

Strategic mistake!!!
I’ll try to explain how it looks on our side.
1) We all go to army, men and women, everybody. When person gets 18, he goes to army. When solders were kidnapped everybody felt that it could happen to them or to their beloved ones. My country must go, and do whatever it can to let them free, otherwise people won’t be ready to serve a country that doesn’t stand behind them. And you know what else. We weren’t on war or something. It happened just like that.

2) Our north cities are under non stop attack from Lebanon. People are getting killed (on both sides). Somehow we got to stop it. Best case, Lebanon army interfere and stop this nightmare. But it doesn’t happen. Worse case, Israeli army is trying to stop it. How it goes? Tracking HA means hurting civilians because they using civilians as a human shield. Why distorting infrastructures? So that HA won’t get help from Syria and Iran. And maybe to prevent kidnapped soldiers being moved outside Lebanon.

Is it fair that civilians get hurt? Is it ok, that Lebanon suffers? Hell, no. It’s crappy. But when it comes to choosing between Israeli security and Lebanon security it’s obvious what my country will choose. Eny other country would do the same.

“no bombs r not bombs..”

I’d like that but there are bombs on both sides.

“i wnder if this will be ur opinion if the situation is reversed and somebody is destroying ur infrastructure what hell is the reason..”

I wonder what would happen if it were your solders kidnap. We can both wonder. It’s a loose of time.

“and good fro me? yes good for me.. cause when i have diginity and believe in an idea which is right for me, i go to the end defending it..
maybe this is not how u deal with it.”

Nice said.
Just don’t hurry to sacrifice yourself before you absolutely sure that you know for what or for whom you are doing that (“i wil stand with him although i don't agree with him in politics and in religion”), and there is no other way.

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:48:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

olga,
we r moving in an empty circle..
u won't convince me an i won't convince u..

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:54:00 PM, Blogger Olga said...

Well, I couldn’t say it better:

“sadly in war u can't be in the middle.. u r either with one side or with the other.. no middl solution..
that's how things go on..”

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:58:00 PM, Blogger BOB said...

If it is between Hezbollah and any other side well i am fully with this other side!

Hezbollah decided to dragged us in a war without asking us for me this is too much! to hell with them!

Every death, every destruction is lead at the feet of Nasserallah

So do not stand with Hezbollah stand with Lebanon and ask for their disarmament!

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 8:01:00 PM, Blogger hillz said...

hizballah equal lebanon now bb, no matter how much i oppose him..

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 11:40:00 PM, Blogger Kevin said...

hilal, seriously, as much as I dislike personal attacks, you're not thinking straight. And if you are, then it's worse than i thought.
I for one, totally agree with bob here. "If it is between Hezbollah and any other side well i am fully with this other side!"

 
At Saturday, July 15, 2006 11:55:00 PM, Blogger J.B. said...

Hilal,

I think this dialogue is imporant. So before I begin I ask that you read what I have to say (unless you think I've said it before...) with as little anger as possible. And while I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from, I'm not sure you fully understand our position. Perhaps this is an unreconcilable difference? I hope not.

Look, forget what I'm saying here. I had a lot to say, so I'll leave it up as a comment. But let's get to the important point.

Put yourself in the shoes of our leaders.
We were invaded, in an unprovoked attack meant as a terrorist act of opportunity.
How would you have us respond?
Shrug it off?
Let them go?
Exchange our prisoners for the Hizballah's?
Something else?

I'd really like to hear your opinion.


I understand what you're saying -- the Israeli naval ship was attacking Lebanese territory and as such was a legitimate military target, sure, I agree completely.

But, by that logic, how do you reconcile the unprovoked attack, abduction of two soldiers and the slaughter of 8 more, within the sovereign territory of Israel?

By the way, you were right about the Suez Crisis, although it took place in 1956, I looked it up on WikiPedia. It was an Israeli incursion into Egypt's territory.

As for the results of that, well, have you noticed that we have been at peace with Egypt for almost 30 years, including a thriving tourist trade -- up until the repetitive bombings in the last three years, that is.


Look, my point is this, and I think I'm repeating myself.

Israel is fully justified in retaliating, full force, for an unprovoked attack on its territory. It came from Lebanon, and was caused by a strong militant group with powerful government control.

We have tolerated much over the years, and someone pushed us over the edge. Nasrallah announced his intentions, and our cabinet informed him of the consequences. Not much surprise as to what happened once he went through with his terrorist act.

There is a very clear distinction between Israel's acts and the acts of terrorist organisations.

Israel is using its recognised military organisation, wearing identifiable uniforms, working in accordance with international law, and its sole intent is to eliminate the infrastructure powering its assailants.

We have no interest in influencing Lebanese politics, we have no interest in occupying Lebanese territory, we have no interest in causing suffering and intimadtion among the Lebanese people. We have a specific, well-known, strategic agenda.

We are not targeting civilians. If we were, do you really think that four days of fighting there would be 85 casualties?

Israel has always been protective of its individuals. We will not put a price tag on the lives of these boys, and we will not bow down to the pressure of terrorists -- yes, the Hizballah hiding in YOUR country are the terrorists, they are the cowards who hide behind women and children, who wear masks in rallies, and cry for the death of all Israelis.

I understand your plight. I cannot compare an experience in my life of such anguish and desperation, such a sense of violation and invasion.

 
At Sunday, July 16, 2006 1:35:00 AM, Blogger Shmulik said...

J.B you need to re-read history Egypt has sponsored hundreds of Fidaiun attacks on Israeli civilians between 1948-56, it ended after the 56 ass-kicking they got.

 
At Sunday, July 16, 2006 1:31:00 PM, Blogger JOE said...

A couple of facts people seem to have missed in this conversation so far.

1) Torturing people is illegal and immoral even if you are surrounded by people who hate you. There is never any excuse ever for torturing people.

2) Attacking civillians and civillian infrastructure is a war crime no matter who does it. Even if you were attacked first. It's always a war crime. Even if you are israel, it's still a war crime.

3) Israel occupies and has occupied for the last few decades 3.5 million people. Apartheid is wrong even if a billion muslims all over the world hate you. civilized nations eventually make the people they conquered citizens. South africa did it eventually. Even china did it.

4) There is a profound difference between killing people in order to continue your occupation and subjugation of people and killing people in order to gain your indepence. "Give me liberty or give me death". Israel choosed to give them death.

5) Anybody who says israelis and arabs don't enjoy killing each other is lying. They love it. They get off on it. They are all barbaric, bloodthirsty, religious zealots. You think those soldiers on the ship didn't whoop it up every time their bombs killed a bus full of civilians?. You don't think Israeli soldiers don't get off on blasting away at a few palestenians or leaving a family homeless by destroying their houses? If you do then you are an idiot. Just listen to them for gods sake.

What a bunch of sick pathetic fuckers you all are. Supposedly you live in the holy land look what you have done to it. Turned it into the cespool of the world filled with hate, perpetual war, and mindless slaughter. Fuck all of you arab and jew alike. You all deserve everything you are getting you sick war pigs.

 
At Sunday, July 16, 2006 1:36:00 PM, Blogger JOE said...

J.B. Said.

"But, by that logic, how do you reconcile the unprovoked attack, abduction of two soldiers and the slaughter of 8 more, within the sovereign territory of Israel?"


Hey J.B I have a few questions for you.

Do you think occupying 3.5 million people for over two decades might qualify as provocation?

Do you think imprisoning thousands of children and women might qualify as provocation?

Do you think rounding up ten thousand palestenians and locking them up without charges or trials might count as provocation?

Do you think torturing people might count as provocation?

Exactly how deluded are you about your complete innocence in this matter anyway? No provocation? What planet do you live on?

 
At Monday, July 17, 2006 7:45:00 PM, Blogger mikizzz said...

well the comment by joe was interesting...unfortunately it is all true...alot of people that i am seeing in canada believe that there is one god...call HIM, ALLAH, LORD, GOD, whatever...he must be sickened...we need to end this war...war only triggers responses of hatred...i could not imagine living in an environment where your friends and family are dying every day...i was hoping that this might be a forum for peace...i have heard both sides and have been reading up on this for years...i apologize that i cannot write from firsthand knowledge...i just hoped to help...is there help?...is there a possibility for moderation?...is there a possibility for tolerance?...you live in the holy land, why can you not agree that HE had many prophets...stop the violence....stop killing your children. I have seen that many people on this forum are very young, and many are involved in the army, or supporting what they think is their last hope for protection from their army(hamas)...i have no doubt that both of your citizens are very strong...you have to be to deal with what you live through...i am petitioning for peace and tolerance may ALLAH/GOD BLESS YOU ALL

 
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