13.8.06

God's Chosen People: Maybe Not!

God's chosen people

by: Jostein Gaarder, Aftenposten 05.08.06

An article in a leading Norwegian newspaper last weekend lambasted Israel and Judaism and said Israel has lost its right to exist in its present form.
Entitled "God's chosen people," the article by author Jostein Gaarder in Aftenposten is raising a storm in Norway. Gaarder, author of the book "Sophie's World," links the Israel Defense Forces' acts in Lebanon to Jewish history and foresees the coming dismantling of the state as it exists today, with the Jews becoming refugees.
There is no turning back, says Gaarder. It is time to learn a new lesson: We do no longer recognize the state of Israel. We could not recognize the South African apartheid regime, nor did we recognize the Afghan Taliban regime. Then there were many who did not recognize Saddam Hussein's Iraq or the Serbs' ethnic cleansing. We must now get used to the idea: The state of Israel in its current form is history.

Save any anti-semite attacks or racism accusations and send them to Olmert, Peretz , and to Halutz. I am relaying what is widely discussed in the civilized states that used to give up "moral coverage" for Israel's war crimes and what not.

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25 Comments:

At Sunday, August 13, 2006 3:01:00 PM, Blogger NassurDinHoga said...

Mr. Feinmann had a wonderful phrase saying: "When it comes to a non-scientific subject, the oppinion of the scientist is as good as any other".

This is applicable to a writer's oppinion about politics in some remote country he knows nothing about.

Mr. Gaardner's (or saramego's for that matter) oppinion about Israel has the same weight as yours or mine.

(In shorter words - who cares?)

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 3:38:00 PM, Blogger Marwa said...

Any group who kills in the name of God are indeed not God's chosen people.

Simple as that.

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 3:53:00 PM, Blogger Mitrii said...

Here a well-known pro-Palestinian Dutch journalist Helge Ogrim writes that he does not recognize existence of Lebanon and predicts is disappearance.

http://www.dagbladet.no/weblogg/blog.php/hogrim/post/13779

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 5:38:00 PM, Blogger Fakty said...

Israel may have put their fait in US being able to impose their will on the International community in regards to the brutal and unlawful attack on a sovereign state. US was about to achieve exactly that in the first drafted resolution, but had to admit to some of the demands raised by the Arab nations. Even though, the accepted resolution obviously has taken into consideration more of the Israeli demands than the country they raped and murdered.

Jostein Gaarder’s article goes to show that people are sick and tired of the brutality and bloodshed that follows in the wake of the Israeli war machine. If US believe the world population is ignorant about their role in the conflict, they are wrong.

The reaction against Jostein Gaarder’s article has been massive, but I believe he is the first man in a western democratic country who has dared to voice out his opinion when critical to Israel. We are often told that in a democracy we are free to speak, may be it should be added that we are free to speak about everything but Israel?

God’s so-called “chosen people” have no more right to commit atrocities than Adolf Hitler, nor do they have more rights to the land than the other populations in the region. Israel hiding behind the bible as an excuse when committing war crimes doesn’t make it better than Syria and Iran, which they and US like to label terrorist nations.

Obviously, after their bloody ventures into Gaza, West Bank and Lebanon, the world must now concentrate about doing right what has been overlooked for so many years. UN’s partition of Palestine in 1947 is the only legal land the International community has granted Israel. The fact that they have conquered more land since then is not legal, and they must turn it back.

Having lost the battle against Hezbollah, even though Israel and US tries to give impression of the opposite, has showed that peace is not realistic without dealing with the root causes of the problems in the Middle East. The root causes is that Israel is illegal occupiers.

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 6:21:00 PM, Blogger Shai said...

Arabs invaded Lebanon in the middle ages, and have contributed to our region nothing but hate since then. When the oil dries up in the Gulf - and that will be very soon - Arabs will once again become nomads, and the region might flourish again.

Jews were in Israel long before Arabs were in Lebanon and Norwegians were in Norawy. And we will be long after that, too.

It might be worth mentioning that even the name of your country, Lebanon, comes from Hebrew. As is the name Beirut (=be'erot), and many others. Even for your own place names you needed the Jews...

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 6:58:00 PM, Blogger Jack's Shack said...

UN’s partition of Palestine in 1947 is the only legal land the International community has granted Israel. The fact that they have conquered more land since then is not legal, and they must turn it back.

You really aren't very well versed in the law are you. None of this is fact, just your desire.

The reality is far different.

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 7:13:00 PM, Blogger Mirvat said...

shai if that's your hope for the region then i must say you're delusional.

as for jews originally living there, yeah those are arab jews, related by blood to the arabs and they lived side by side for ages. the jews you talk about, the zionists are not even jews (by biblical meaning) or by blood. they're an easten european tribe who adopted judaism in 740 A.D. these are the ashkenazi jews who are the majority and who are in power today. they're not even real jews.

so if you want to use history, you lose!

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 7:21:00 PM, Blogger Mirvat said...

and NassurDinHoga, a scientist is always more well prepared fo analysis and interpretation in a scientific method in any topic, and a smart person who sees things as they are is a smart person.

but for relevance, what about jack bernstein who was killed by the mossad for stating the kind of state of terror that israel is? whay about the peace activists who were killed for opposing house demolishion?

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:06:00 PM, Blogger NassurDinHoga said...

Please Mivrat, I was only quoting Richard Feinmann. Send him your comments.

As to the other stories - I have no idea what you're talking about, so I cannot help you figure it out. Sorry.

Am I the only one who thinks that the discussion on this "Right to exist" is completly stupid?
Would the war stop if Israel had/hadn't this vague right to exist?

Israel exists - I'm a first eye witness. So does Lebanon. So does Hizb-alla. Even France exists. Things may have been better for some of us if some other entity wouldn't have existed in the first place. But it does. Let us start from here.

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 9:33:00 PM, Blogger Mirvat said...

if you want to know what the hell i'm ranting about

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/corrie-articles.html

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:05:00 PM, Blogger anotheranglo said...

Why this obsession with the Jews in the role of Chosen People? Christians and Muslims and other peoples have also considered themselves as such and I have read modern Arab writings that refer to Muslims as chosen people. I can assure you the reason we Israelis think we are right to make war is because Hezbollah themselves and their friends in Iran and Syria say they want to make a genocide on the Jews. Nothing to do with being the "Chosen people", everything to do with wanting to stay alive. If you have criticisms of Israel to make you can make them without getting into racism!

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:05:00 PM, Blogger Fadi said...

Mirvat, don't waste your time trying to reason using facts. Let them walk into the swamp themselves!!

A clarificaiton, the name Lebanon, Lebn'n comes from Phoenician, a semite language, with the same roots as Arabic and Hebrew. You're right Shai. It's an Arabic name, or Phoenician.. I can use the same argument to say, Arabs are Hebrews and Hebrews are Arabs, hence Arabs have an equal historic right in Palestine. But I just won't waste my time playing on words and deriving conclusions. We know Palestine is Arabic.

For the dogmatic parrots who just throw statements thinking they can get away with them; How about a reality check? Instead of popping 22 centuries back in History, how about revisiting the validity of the Zionist claims TODAY? The smoke-bomb cover of the truth in thining, it is just not working anymore.

Moving ahead, the article was NOT discussing Israel's current or past existence, it's discussing it's future - if any. Long as it may seem, Israel is bound to run out of lies. Long as it may seem, Israel cannot fool the whole world all the time. Time is running up. One thing that is not getting smaller is the Long line of disbelievers and disgusted peoples at the Israeli war crimes and fallacies.

Careful, Careful. We are NOT discussing Jews; For those of you who are about to cry anti-semite, Save your Breath. Its mainly protesting the fact that Israel hides behind the "jewish" claims to justify atrocities. It's not fair for the Jews, and certainly not right to the world. If Israel keeps doing this, it is putting at threat the Jews [whom Israel claims it defends and represents], and the existence of Israel in question. You should do something about it - and not on this blog. Write to the Israeli government instead.

The Jews should object that Israel is building up hatred against the Jews - not the Arabs, not the French, not the Norwegians.

Ah Yes, Israel has turned into a US tool in the region. Israel is taking the beatings and collecting enemies instead of the US. Someone should look into that too.

That was an advise, hopefully Israel would choose not to take it. Poland and Madagascar are good places to live otherwise. Need help packing??

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:17:00 PM, Blogger RoxieAmerica said...

Israel is not a tool of the US. It is a product of thinking based on false-beliefs. First false-belief, "We do not negotiate with terrorists." How does one bring peace without including the parties at war? The Bush Administration's chants of "evil" and "if you are not for us, you are against us," are polarizing statements that work against peace. The use of war to end terrorism has failed. The use of war to end terrorism has fertilized terrorism worldwide. I wrote of that in my article, "Military Action is the Fertilizer of the Terrorism Movement" on line at http://blue-is-beautiful.blogspot.com/.

Israel forgets one basic fact - The Nazi Party was a far-right political party. Zionists are a far-right group. Bush is supported by a far-right Christian group. Bush has polarized the Nation. Israel has polarized the Middle East. Nazism polarized Germany.

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:30:00 PM, Blogger Mirvat said...

need help packing.. hahaha

thanks fadi.
it was a sad day for jews and arabs when the zionists convinced people that judaism and zionism are the same thing.
and i find it outrageous when they call us anti-semites!! when we're semites. it's just lack of imagination. but what do you expect, most people still don't know that iran is not arabic.

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:40:00 PM, Blogger NassurDinHoga said...

Who are "them" in "Let them..."?
I am, personally, one person. You can address me by name (Avishay is a common choice among my friends).

I cannot see the connection between:

"Israel is bound to run out of lies"
"Israel cannot fool the whole world all the time"
"Time is running up"
"One thing that is not getting smaller is the Long line of disbelievers and disgusted peoples at the Israeli war crimes and fallacies"

And the continuation of existance of Israel. Has history shown that countries that "ran out of lies" had suddenly disappeared? Had countries that commited "war crimes and fallacies" disintegrated to dust? The contrary is true.

P.S - I must support mivrat here: Even though we are in the meadle east, throwing a fact into the propoganda every now and than won't hurt.

 
At Sunday, August 13, 2006 11:15:00 PM, Blogger NassurDinHoga said...

Nazism polaraized Germany? God knows how I ever did pass those finals in history.

This kind of "Roxieamericaist" logic may leed to: I was born after my parents had sex, Mivrat was born after his parents had sex, therefore I'm a lebanese writing from NY. What gives?

 
At Monday, August 14, 2006 12:23:00 AM, Blogger Andrey said...

@mirvat:
the jews you talk about, the zionists are not even jews (by biblical meaning) or by blood. they're an easten european tribe who adopted judaism in 740 A.D. these are the ashkenazi jews who are the majority and who are in power today. they're not even real jews.


Well, it must be hard to avoid propoganda. Lets call it anti-zionism. The tribe you are talking about is called "khazars", you can find all about them at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars - for their relation to ashkenazi scroll down, to the end. As for the distinction between judaism and zionism, well 2 different things, but:
1) The holiest place in the world for jews is Jerusalem.
2) The homeland of jews was Israel (big small - doesn't matter).
3)most important, those MF from neturei karta are leaded by the prophecy that states, that after the comming of mesiah "Jews from all over the world will fly on clouds in the sky, to settle back in Israel" they think that coming back to Israel before the messiah is against the will of god, Thats why they convince people like you that "it was a sad day for jews and arabs when the zionists convinced people that judaism and zionism are the same thing."
---> If you realy want peace, it is time to recognize that we are not just Americas hand in the ME, but Jews - the closest nation to Arabs on earth. Stop trying to throw us to the sea, or send us to poland - demand and shout for 2 state solution, and even if you don't want Jewish state in your region, don't wory arabs would in time be the majority in Israel, and meanwhile nobody will have to die. ANTY-ZIONIZM === PROBLEM OF THE REGION.

 
At Monday, August 14, 2006 12:52:00 AM, Blogger Mirvat said...

NassurDinHoga, i'm a lebanese woman living in NY.. what was your logic again?

andrey hey, long time..
nobody can convince 'people like me' of what i want to be convinced with which is what the facts that i lived show and what the reality presents.
my point was and will always be that arabs are not racist people. you said it yourself, when arabs will be the majority in 'israel', nobody has to die. when jews are in control we all have to die and we are.

you still think arabs oppose the two state solution. after the declaration of the 2 state solution, jews went ahead and took 80 % of the palestinian land. and i'm not even talking about what they took in 67. and they continue to expand and occupy while all arab countries gave up on the whole conflict.
who's against the 2 state solution? egypt, saudi arabia or jordan?
lebanon? who had suffered its own occupation by israel for 22 years?
paletinians who just want to live? who remain tortured, thrown in prisons and occupied?
are you for real?

israel has the right to defend itself (bomb lebanon out of existence because we had the adudacity to ask for what's rightfully ours, and if you say the shabaa farms are not worth all this, i ask you what would israel do if the palestinians ceased one settlement) in order for it to exist (through mass murders, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and annexation of our lands) is an argument you just lost.

who do you think you are telling me when my country is still being bombed, to be convinced of what's being offered so that 'ordinary people' as you put it, can take the bus and not be scared?

empty your prisons sir. get off my country. get off gaza and the west bank (ILLEGAL). leave US alone.

the arabs don't want to drive israel to the sea, wake up and look through your own propaganda, we want justice. stop abusing the power given to you by the US and do what's right. do you not know what happens in your own country?

 
At Monday, August 14, 2006 1:19:00 AM, Blogger Andrey said...

Mirvat, we got away from gaza + elected the goverment that stated it would leave west bank. thanks to HA it is not likely to happen. do you know how desparate are the ones that called to leave lebanon before 2000, while hearing from others "they will send rockets to israel" and answered "no they won't, they just wan't as out - these are not PLO". HA is the problem, peace agreement with lebanon would give you ALL your wishes : Shebaa, prisoners, maps. 2 facts: (1) Not so long ago there was atack of 3 egyptian soldiers, that entered Israel. The only ones to die were them. Nothing happened after that - we just talked with Egyptians. thats it. (2) Few years ago Jordanian soldier opened fire toward's a group of Israely girls, killing 12. King Husein the father of Abdallah came to the familys of the girls and apologized (I heared that it was on his knees, and that the parrents understood and said it wasn't his fault) - this is peace vs. cease fire.
As for propoganda - I get it from your chanels (arab), and iranian chanels - the masters of HA, and soon the islamic republic of Lebanon - I don't even have words to describe the amount of hate, lies and well, it's the lies that shook me.
Now you said, when arabs will be the majority in 'israel', nobody has to die, you didn't unerstand me: what I meant is that even those who don't want a Jewish state, can achive in a way wich will not get any one killed: 2 state solution + wait untill arabs are majority

 
At Monday, August 14, 2006 1:21:00 AM, Blogger NassurDinHoga said...

@Mirvat - Forget it; it was a stupid example trying to say the
"The Nazi Party was a far-right political party. Zionists are a far-right group. Bush is supported by a far-right Christian group"
argument is completely stupid. Nothing to do with you personally.

Something funny with no relevance whatsoever - my girlfriend's grandma was an Iraqi jew, and she kept listning to Fairuz and UmKultum every time we went visiting her... I never managed to like this music, but it made a special atmosphere like we were entering a different world.

 
At Monday, August 14, 2006 4:57:00 AM, Blogger Mirvat said...

well ofcourse moubarak and abdallah the son as hussain before follow their masters' commands in washington, they do as they want and they would sustain peace with israel against the outrage of their own people, who have not forgotten the suffering of their palestinian brothers and sisters. these same people are oppressed by their regimes which are encouraged by the US just to keep the pipes running. keep the dictators that work with us, that keep their people poor, oppressed and helpless. but believe you me, there's not one arab, media or not, who doesn't see through all that and who is not well aware of the plans for the "new middle east". the neocons' and zionists' vision of a carved up weakened land, just like iraq, that would serve the ambitions of the american corporates in the region.

who will guarantee a 2 state solution? a fair solution? we've seen what your government is capable of.
when will you understand HA is a part of lebanon. being the enemy of HA is being my enemy. when will you get it? the state of israel was established by HA-likes troops. it works like that, give us 'Shebaa, prisoners, maps' which are not wishes, sir, try rights. and then HA will have no reason to perform any military operations (like the kidnapping of the 2 soldiers).

and yes these are not PLO, at least what that means to lebanon, is that these are our lebanese sons and brothers and fathers. you get that.

 
At Monday, August 14, 2006 5:08:00 AM, Blogger Mirvat said...

as for the media, israeli school children were asked what they think when they hear the word arab, there answers ranged from child killer to criminal to a dirty person...
a lebanese poet on tv was asked about those pictures of the israeli girls signing those missiles. he said i refuse to think this is anything beyond those children being pushed to do something they don't understand, childhood is pure and sacred anywhere.

 
At Monday, August 14, 2006 4:15:00 PM, Blogger Fakty said...

Jack Shack;

May be you'r very well versed in the law, so I assume you can educate me when saying that none of this is a fact? I will appreciate that.

 
At Monday, August 14, 2006 6:09:00 PM, Blogger Akiva M said...

"well ofcourse moubarak and abdallah the son as hussain before follow their masters' commands in washington, they do as they want and they would sustain peace with israel against the outrage of their own people, who have not forgotten the suffering of their palestinian brothers and sisters"

Mirvat, if you want endless war, you'll get it. If you want the end of Israel, you won't.

Personally, I'll be shedding no tears 20 or 50 or 80 years from now when you die with your cherished dream of Israel's destruction still not realized. And helpful hint; if you want Americans to stop supporting Israel, you'll need to be a little less blatant about wishing for its destruction.

BTW, I'll quote another commenter from another blog: "If this was a victory for Lebanon, Lebanon can't afford to win many more wars"

 
At Monday, August 14, 2006 10:19:00 PM, Blogger Fadi said...

Mirvat, you are mistaken, actually, the Zionists usurped 94% of the Land of Palestine when they established their state.

I will just toy with ye tough defenders of Israel for sometime, then you can go play somewhere else.

Here's just a past-future vision:
At it height, the "Kingdom Of Israel" barely lasted a century. Now if you read Dr. Kamal Salibi, you will know the Zionist mistook Palestine for Yemen, as they probably thought the LEBANESE were more pleasant to look at than the Saudis. Despite their lack of intelligence, they appreciate a good-looking neighbour - I must admit, and obviously crave for a good beating every now and then to wake them up.

The kingdom of Israel reached the height of its existence under the reign of King David (1000–961 bc). Despite his desire to unify and improve the vast empire of his father, King David, King Solomon’s oppressive rule caused much dissension among the Israelites and eventually led to the division of the kingdom following his death. The northern part of his realm became the kingdom of Israel, while the southern became the kingdom of Judah. After Solomon's death in 922 bc, the country was divided into two parts. Later of course, for no apparent reason, the citizens of those kingdoms spread around the world. History seems to repeat itself they say!

Therefore, Israeli kingdom lasted for something like 75 years? We'll grant you till 2025 to break into: Northern part - including West Bank, as a Palastenian State, whereby the Israeli settlers would have move to THE SOUTHERN Part - having run out of anxiety pills living next to the Lebanese, who are as pretty as a COBRA when dragged into a fight!! HSSSS!!! Ooops.. Forgot Gaza.. No problem, we'll keep it as a launching pad for the new Generation of Hamas-Ultra Range missiles. Do I hear them Sirens wailing? Or is that the Bus to the airport?!

Call me a visionary- unless Israel accepts the return of the displaced Palestinians, makes peace with its neighbours, and integrate with its surroundings, history says that Israelis have got 12 more years to pack. They HAVE to decide on Packing: Two pieces of luggage to Madagascar, and one piece to Poland.

NassrudinHoga. First, I commend you for accepting that Israel is running out of lies and committing war crimes. As for the other question: there is always a first. Should I spell it out for you: I. for I am going, S - for sure I'm going, R. A. E. L .. fill in the blanks.

Enjoy your trip. Here's your one way ticket. Pack light! Quick - before the flights are FULL.

Warsaw anybody?

 

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