An apology
I feel that I overstepped a certain red line… for that I offer my sincer apology.
I should not have expressed my views in such a sectarian way. I was relating a feeling on the ground. But I should have put it in others words, such as Hezbollah do not care about Hariri’s death.
By the way Hashem I never knew your sect and I do not base my responses on people’s sects, if you got the impression that my comment targeted you then again I personally apologies. My comment about ashura was crude but was in response to the person who was attacking anniversaries to the dead (and i thought it was you, honest mistake) But still I should not have said what I did and for that I apologize again.
This unfortunate event aside, I still stand by all what I said in the post and the following comments (except for the part discussed above)
Peace
posted by BOB @ 12:47 PM
18 Comments:
Bob,
I guess u mixed between jij and me.
I was not makeing fun of the dead. Note that I always use the word "martyr" before rafic hariri, and this has nothing to do with my political opinion.
I was talking about the unethical media and political use (from 14 march side) of the grave, and I still stand by all what I have said. it's disgusting what's happening down there and make me sick.
So, don't put words in my mouth..
Hilal what you said was critisizing the anniversairy of the dead, using sarcasm that verges on making fun. That is what caused my comment, as an anology to other anniversairy of the dead...
PS: i relaise that i pointed out Hashem, while commenting about ahsura and i was refering to you (regarding your comment about the anniversary of the dead)
so again Hashem i apologize it was an honest mistake, i tought you were the one who made that comment (in fact it was hilal's)
lah ya bob, dakheelak. you knew for sure it was not hashem, cause you told me to ask hashem about the birthdays of the dead from 1400 years till now..
you seem to forget alot..
anyway, the comment is down there, you can check it..
and ya bob, my sarcasm was about celebrating the birthday of a dead politician infront of cameras and making use of it politically which is totally unethical. you just have to admit that. unethical ya3neh unethical, wherever we stand politically..
hilal
nop i just reread my comment and i will quote it: "Again here very nice alluring to the dead and birthday really sensitive, I just would love to rave on some other birthday and death celebration that has been going on for 1400 years but I will not, try Hashem he is good at these things."
notice that i said he is good at these things, i.e. raving (means talking a lot) about them, alluring and making fun of the dead's birthdays, not about ashura in particular. (notice the plural form and the structure!!!)
finally i repeat that comment was an honest mistake i thought hashem was the one who made that comment in the first place and not you and i was pointing it out. and i apologized for it.
Guys, I think one of you is referring to martyr rafik hariri's birthday while the other is referring to the anniversary of his assassination, and this brought about the mentioning of the 1400 years issue.
Celebrating a dead person's birthday with such extrvagant propaganda for political purposes is a cheap shot, in addition to being unethically abusive of the dead, especially someone of his standing.
I was talking about the anniversary of his assasination.
so re-read bob what I wrote downthere.
I still want toknow your opinion about that: Is it ethical?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ba3dein fee far2 bein "birthday" (a word u used also in your comment) and a memorial or anniversary of an assasination. And you know that the memorial was 9 months ago..
that's not very near to discuss it..
i think that as long as religion is part of politics, then commemorating these sort of anniversaries fit the framework, taking into account that i disagree with both concepts
However, in absolute terms i find it non ethical to utilize the dead for political reasons (and this includes the commemorations, HA's use of dead people images during the war, and so on...)
did i answer your question?
so you mentioned how HA used the death in many previous posts but you never stopped to mention march 14 use of the grave (still going on, turn on future tv and watch ghada 3eesa's eyebrows).
Now, didn't that worth a post from you ya bob in all this queue of HA posts?
or maybe it's too "absolute" when it comes to march 14 and very "realistic" when it comes to the other campaign??
and why your comments are always one way? :
- when 14 march makes a mistake, you reply is both did mistake .. lesser of two evils..
- when we mention warlords, you also return to generalizations (which are not accurate at all): all killed and when you have no kiiling record for a guy you declare he killed figuratively (!!)(does that include martyr rafic hariri fllowing ur definition for "figuratively killed"?).
yet, when you write, it's only HA.. ma fee gheir..
and what about cluster bombs? it's interesting to write on, no? or about the stolen aids by some ministers? isn't that interesting and not "absolute"?
by the way, I am not "accusing" you, I just find weird. sorry, so weird..
I will leave "accusations" directed to part of the lebanese to you..(btw are they lebanese or iranian and syrian, let's clarify that.. and how come patriotic yesterday becomes a tool and one of the accessories today, and if u wanna follow the logic of being in an axis of evil, then the other side will proudly fit in the american axis, no? )
Now how come u don't care about the sects and you support a sectarian movement (FM) (or let's say perceived by the sunnis as the movement tht defends their rights, and usually FM (or hariri, rafic or saad)play the sectarian way during elections, you can't deny that), explain that to me..
or maybe, it's all off the topic when u don't wanna answer..
hilal
I just said that i found what happens on the grave is unethical!!!
At least read what i say!!!!
"However, in absolute terms i find it non ethical to utilize the dead for political reasons (and this includes the commemorations ...)"
and to make it easier for you i ll say in plainer words "i am aginst any use of graves/dead/martyrs for any political reasons"
now about mistakes i agreed over and over that 14th of March did mistakes...
what else, speaking about warlords i was being open and wanted to start anew if you want to open the past you will find that Hariri was the one with no blood on his hands... I can't believe that you brought this against me, i was in a open mood trying to at least find a common point... pfff even on that you refuse to agree...who do you think of the leaders have no blood on their hands?? (i stress leaders)
Bottom line I ACEEPT that 14th of March made mistakes, and did awful things in the war but do you or will you say the same about 8th of March....
you want me to argue on behavle of someone else it will not work, ask me about what i wrote and i will discuss it...
ya bob , le22anno "figuratively killed" mosh feyteh rasseh .. explain it to me..
u said that hoss coperated with the syrain regime and thus he figuratively killed.. so what was hariri doing? opposing the syrian regime?? be logical ya bob!
if this is ur definition t a warlord and to "figuratively killed", sorry bas hariri fits that.. so elaborate..
(w sheel el leaders 3a janb, u know it's not very right from educated people to talk about "our leaders", don't u agree?)
and you didn't answer my questions, I really wanna hear your answers, just to clarify ur position more and avoid any misconception.
Bob,
I hear you...and let's get over this.
We don't agree on alot of issues, but i always cherished the respect our discussions here had.
Let's hope our home get through the coming tough time.
take care everybody.
I'm glad everybody is talking to each other. You know, we all have our unconscious biases and assumptions; talking to people who don't share them, about difficult issues, can reveal our thinking to us. It's not always pretty. But it's good to talk, to make such mistakes, to get challenged (and challenge others).
I dont' think there is anybody out there who is perfectly unbiased, perfectly non-sectarian. To make a pluralistic society work we have to have the courage to talk - and listen. (and I live in America, where we have a LOT of issues around race, class and ethnicity)
Blogs can be a great place to have these discussions, as long as people keep their integrity, try to make amends, and try to refrain from personal or ethnic/religious/class attacks.
Good for you all. I am glad to see this dialogue. (and I missed the original post for which Bob is apologizing).
Leila
Thx!
And it is the post called "the masks are finally off" in the comments
Hilal
Just plainly state your questions (one subject at a time) straight to the point and i ll answer
Hashem
Likewise, at the end of the day if we can't have a decent discussion between us than we are truly lost.
I'll assume (based on ur reply) my questions up there are not direct to the point..
khalas bob, i got it..
you made it clear that you don't wanna answer (or u don't have answers).
hilal
:O
i just got lost to which question i should answer...
man what point? this post was an apology so there is no point...
just ask your question again so i can answer it...pfffff
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