The Media and the Aounist 2
Concerning the false story about the incident of vandalizing the car of the Tayyar representative in Montréal ( check the Rampurple’s post titled : “The Media & The Aounists”; Tayyar Canada apologized about what happened and blamed someone called COLCO, and promised to contact Tayyar.org and tell them. ( As a side note the people at Tayyar Canada were very professional and serious. They promptly responded to my query)
So guess what happened. Tayyar.org kept the story and only withdrew the picture. This is even more deceitful and cast an even bigger doubt on the sincerity and professionalism of the Tayyar.org team.
Link of Tayyar.org page:
http://www.tayyar.org/tayyar/articles.php?article_id=10991&type=news
Finally I wrote Tayyar Canada back and I will keep you posted on their answer...
posted by BOB @ 2:46 PM
13 Comments:
:D
bilmarra!!
oualaw...they are ridicoulous!
Y
http://doubtsandconvictions.blogspot.com/
well guys
just a question
why focusing on tayyar?
i mean there was a mistake done by CNN about the 5 of feb protests, claiming it was pro hezbollah guys that made the damages when the hezbollah cancelled its presence to that particular manifestation
u should have been also writing to cnn.com to remove their video from the air
u should also write to the future for not diffusing for exemple the communiqué of the lebanese army denying some of their info
if u really want to have a good opinion, consider also looking others medias mistakes, or voluntary mistakes to confront them.
i m feeling that kind of small voluntary or non voluntary thing is not worst to concentrate on.
there were worst!!!
tayyar is just a source like another.
stop being emotional or one sided, just be critics about everything and not about one thing
i m waiting forward to see the mistakes of all the medias about lebanese news being published here, to reach the stage of full conscienceness and full awareness
I met today someone from the Tayyar in Paris, the web site is hosted in Paris and webmaster is apprently here also. The are aware about the picture problem. Apparently according to the guy they have a problem to solve in Montreal with an official tayyar representative and a guy with an email address with "tayyar" in it that is doing misinformation...dunno that's what he told me at least.
But I must say I agree with what François wrote also!!
So if I find a mistake on Tayyar.org I can't talk about it unless I find a mistake in Future!
Total nonsense!
I am not concentrating on anyone; I am just doing what everybody should do be a watch dog of the media (and I concentrate on the internet as a whole, so TV, Radio and what else I leave to others), the Lebanese one! Not CNN!
Anyways It is Francois' reactions that I find striking. Rather than saying yeah ok they made a mistake and they should apologize for it and correct it, he just start finding excuse and using the Aounist favorite argument "The others are even worse, why pick on us!"
You know why? Because I know all the others are bad and because ONCE I HAD HOPES THAT FPM WILL CHANGE THE ROTTEN LEBANESE POLITICAL SCENE, but sadly my hopes were crushed…and they are just as bad.
So please next time just say: "they made a mistake and they should apologize" and please oh please do not say look at the future and what they are doing!!!
That is so unfruitful and defeatist, so now the FPM wants us to compare them to Future or the rest!!! It is you who put yourselves on a pedestal and made Aoun a saint, not me! So you must bear the consequences!!
it makes me reminding of that tv emission on the french arté "arret sur image" which is talking about the manipulations of the medias in france. it s quite more sophisticated then this article on tayyar, i ll come back on more sophisticated items in this comment.
well i was sure bob wouldnt like someone to answer that way.
did u notice for ex, one article of lorient le jour mixing the communiqué of the french quai d orsay (which i m subscribed to) and the communiqué of the future?
i was shocked, but never the less i didnt hear anyone talking about it.
did u see somewhere in l orient le jour the article i sent them with just the simple question:
why are you not writing 2 articles instead of one article , mixing 2 information to build a sort of subliminal message to the readers.
i didnt.
did u hear the future tv saying they were wrong about a statement they said in their newspapers?
nope i didnt
but as far i m concerned and i m not a aounist, and bob is saying it, they are answering at least that they are aware they have a problem and at least he is in touch with them and he is able to tell them.
did someone even hear for ex in the lebanese newspaper about the fatwa of fadallah fobidding the violences the 5 of february? i didnt tell today, till someone that saw this info in france, and who came back reported it to me.
is this info true or not, i m tending to believe that real close relative of mine, as far she s not used to lie to me (she s my mother)
i m sorry but we are all living in a sort of disinformation campaign, volontaire or not done by few politicians that own directly of indirectly some medias and trying to use the citizens of that country like the sheeps in order to hide their true and real objectives.
my point is to be aware of that kind of manipulation, to understand theses objectives and i prefer to be an independant mind, seeing the mistakes and the errors, being informed etc.. then to be just a sheep one sided critizing only my opponments.
the truth is never white or black, it s always gray. and i m making that dicotomy btw unvolontaire mistakes (and it seems it s one as far it s just a small news that wouldnt change the world nor the situation in lebanon) and volontaire mistakes like theses subliminal messenges that TV and newspapers are somehow doing.
we have to learn to be aware citizens and not to be ruled by anyone.
learn to critize everyone and not just someone
i m still waiting forward to see more critics from more medias
some thoughs came to me after i posted that comment.
well few time ago i ve been reading a report of a ngo about freedom of press in lebanon.
we know that:
new tv belongs to khayat, old beyrouthi family which is leadership if being threatened by the rising hariri's leadership in their sunnit community
Future and lbc no need to say
al manar hezbollah
ntv , berry
that NGO was claiming the following
each tv station is directed by a party or interests and they are manipulating their viewers from the beginning of their information program through edito.
this s really true.
why the syrians were not able to manipulate the lebanese? bz we got a free press.
today this press is leaded by political parties. is it independant? i dont think so, each media is politically linked to the political lines of the people that are controling theses medias.
even if we got ride of the syrian occupation we didnt free our minds.
long time ago in 57, einsenhower was warming the americans that the biggest threats was the militaro industrial lobby, today without being einsenhower i m saying that my freedom and everyone's freedom is threatened by political lobby leading the newspaper.
if tayyar (and i m not a frequent reader of tayyar.org) offers me an alternative point of view i m welcoming it and i m confronting their point of view with the others medias to be able to make up my own point of view.
i m welcoming therefore the alternative of media waiting for real free information channels to emerge in lebanon independant from any kind of political line.
i will just add one thing about tayyar, at least they are publishing as well articles from other medias in their pages (and sometimes i m getting them before they are publishing it) and i m welcoming this initiative in the sense as i m saluting the diversity of informational channel.
however, we didnt reach yet the liberty in this country through independend media from political parties
i guess this is the next challenge we have to fight for as fighted against the syrian occupation.
@ evil
well few remark:
tayyar is a web site, published on the web as it s underlied, usually people on the web are educated enough to access the net, contrary to mass media such as tv or the radios.
therefore when tayyar.org is doing such mistake, of course this mistake would be discovered at one time or another, contrary to medias like tv or radio that are not always recorded.
i ll ask u one simple question.
to whom this mistake is profiting to?
to tayyar.org?
i dont think so, as far far as it s tracable, they are the first loosers of that mediatic waterloo.
it s easy to critic a written media but hardly to uncrypt the mass media such as tv or radio.
this story makes me remembering of few stories:
did u ever read that book or pierre nord called the desinformation?
it s about processes to desinforme your enemies in a war, giving first true informations, then when they are trusting u, begining to give fake informations leading to disasters. (such as the fortitude operation against germany in the WW2)
this kind of operations exist as well in the political world.
one exemple well known, Karl Rove, advisor of George Bush and known neo con.(and this story is written in the book "les sercret des bush"
in the 60 karl rove was already a fervent republican but he managed himself to work for a rising democratic senator, working hard till he was reached the HQ of that senator and got high responsabilities.
he started then during an electoral campaign to distrubute free invitations for galas to smugglers, street thiefs ect... the senator didnt know anything about that till this gala
and guess what?
that senator lost theses elections.
karl rove was lately a advisor of bush!
so i m taking that kind of informations with precautions, i m wondering what were the insentives to that guy to give fakes infos to tayyar.org and by the way, i didnt even read this article (i dont read arabic even if i perfectly understand it) as far as i think that we have more important mediatic manipulations in the lebanese medias through TV linked to political lines of their owners, removing therefore the independant critiria of their freedom of reporting the situation , beginning as i said before their tv informational programs through editos reflecting a political line, manipulating the viewers of theses informational program, instead of beginning with titles and after by reporting the news.
i m feeling more concerned by the mass media non freedom then the published press problem
this situation was reported by a NGO, where did we heard about it in lebanon? no where. there was a report about it , the lebanese mass media are not allowing their audience to make up freely their mind but are sending "subliminal messenges" toward their listeners.
My dear François
What you are saying is perfectly true and I applaud you for your knowledge and analysis, and I even apologize to categorizing you as an aounist…
But what I do not understand is why aren’t you helping me finding the truth about this incident instead of minimizing it and apologizing for it? How do you know it was not on purpose? How do you know that it was not pure disinformation! I do not all what I said is that they published a fabricated story and I contacted them about it. Now why I am criticizing Tayyra.org and not future or someone else, it simply doesn’t matter I can stated many reasons but it really doesn’t t matter they made a mistake and we should get to the bottom of it. Now if you would bring a mistake another news outlet made and proves that they are lying I would be more than happy to help you investigate it. So just stop finding excuse for Tayyar.org and help me knowing what really happened. If it was a simple misunderstandement or a mistake I would be more than happy to retract my accusation of fabrication and misinformation, but until then all the facts are pointing towards a fabrication and intentional misinformation, if not by the tayyar.org team then at least by the guy named COLCO which is part of the Tayyar , moreover their withdrawal of only the picture cast even more doubts.
So before going on to other media ( although I agree they are sometimes even worse) et us just get to the bottom of this and then I would be more than happy to catch any media outlet with their pants down.
Again, I am not attacking the Tayyar just because I am form another team or whatever ( in fact I am not, even more I was part of the tayyar under the Syrian occupation –In LAU -) It is just that we found a media outlet lying and we had the evidence to prove it!!!
Peace
@ bob
lebanese act emotionally and not rationaly
if i m sharing few ideas of the aounist, it doesnt mean i m aounist.
and vice versa.
it means that their approach about some of the problems are in my view the solution.
and vice versa.
however democratie is to debate and not to against someone by principle.
to tell u the truth, i dont care about this kind of minor incidences, really i dont care.
far more important things are happening daily in lebanon, and right now we are building the future of the country. i dont care about the past, i m focusing on the future and on the implications of what the current situation is implying.
in this optique,talking, talking and talking about this incidence, whatever if it s a true or volunteer incidence or not is risible.
i didnt even react the first time that it was published to say anything about it besides that tayyar.org is not a mass media, it s the outlet of a political party, but not media.
i m considering far more important the mass medias that should be independant from any political line and that are manipulating their electoral segments (since politics appear to be in this country like a business) and leading to extremise their customers to the point where everyone having different point of view is treated or by being aouniste or by belonging to the future as if it was an insult for one or another.
gosh, political diversity doesnt mean fighting.
political diversity means debating, voting and accepting the results of the votes if they are accurate whatever who is the winner.
more and more i m feeling that the political extremism is gaining this country's population and more the time is passing and more the divisions and the desunion of what leaded to last years communion of all the lebanese is disappearing.
we need to focus therefore on the future of lebanon and not being one sided and not accusing someone to be one sided.
one threat i m seing is that the links btw politicals and the medias as so strong that the 4th mediatic power is controled by the politicians.
this is a threat to democracy far more important that a small article.
this is what to avoid in the near future, avoiding the threat of a mediatic dictature, leading people like sheeps.
this is the main sin of the current mass medias in lebanon and tayyar.org is beeing seen on my side of an outlet of a political party and restrained for the moment to the net where the people are more educated and therefore more able to make the difference btw propaganda and facts the the current mass medias.
talking about mass medias, the power of images is much more stronger then one article.
now about the current situation:
what does this article changes on the lebanese scene?
nothing, it has a negligeable impact.
however small mistakes like that are leading to suspicious
as far as , as i said it, the viewers on the net are more aware etc... they ll see they are cheating somewhere (contrary to the mass media where the people are usually blind believers)
i just guess that as far tayyar.org is being descreditalised by this situation, and as they are the biggest loosers about this situation, (i still didnt read the article since i m still not reading arabic) i m searching who is the winner of that situation.
just think that way bob:
whose the winner of discrebilising tayyar.org?
did this colco played like Karl Rove's game? (can be possible as well)
now why are they not removing it?
well i dont know to who you are talking.
just ask them
is it a technical problem? can they remove the text from their databases? is it needing some admin passwords they have lost
is it an information they are still inquiring, meaning searching for what happened?
is it still published on purpose?
or i dunno why
i dont know what and really i dont care why
if such incidences are happening in the US, in europe or whatever, it s possible in lebanon as well.
i went today on tayyar.org (usualy i m not going) through the link u gave me, it was in arabic, so i switched to french and then to english.
to tell u the truth, there s something i liked, having a sort of press review of different countries and having independant writers sharing their feelings.
is this colco an independant writer?
in such case, they have and this point is missing say like on the daily star that independant writers are hold responsible for their own opinion and tayyar.org is not responsible of what they are writing
this point is missing
by the way, did u ever read bellacio news? www.bellacio.org if i remember.
they are amazing, totally anarchist but when they published last year articles stating that the people in downtown were nazi as far as they were making the nazi salute (by ignorance) i wrote them a comment, this comment was then erased by their staff but the article remained the same. exactly the same
for them ALL 14 march walkers were a bunch of nazi collaborating with the US policy in the middle east etc...
did i make up a whole story about it?
no as far bellacio is restreined to a niche of people that anyway wont change up their minds.
i m aware that everyone is lying at one point of another, however tayyar.rog is a political vitrine and not a media and i m more concerned by the mass media.
second point, i guess that we must a little bit calm down the things. if u re browsing a little bit on political blogs etc... u ll see that more and more people are getting extremised and this is a prelude to violence.
we must cool down to be able everyone to talk
i mean by that it s not the downtown talks that would reach a result, not the tayyar or the future or joumblatt or whoever.
we must do the dialogue, "we" meaning the population, only the population can reach peace in the mind of everyone and we must give that exemple on the net on the blogs as it s a place to express ourselves and then enlarge it in real life as well
Again I cannot but agree...
I feel that it would be intresting to continu our debat face to face!
So if you feel like it we should arrange something
drop me an email or a comment on my blog, if intrested...
Peace
I think u are exagerating the problem a bit. Someone made a mistake within the Tayyar and should be responsible for the consequences of this mistake. In each party, every individual should be accountable for his acts. And maybe this is the problem in Lebanon concerning the political partis and many issues within the partis like the democracy, accountability, credibility etc. I think that the democracy in Lebanon cannot be done without democratic, secular partis and vice versa
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