19.3.05

Explosion in Beirut

Updates:
Explosion occured at 12:35 am.
6 injured.
The car was a Datsun, License plate 230463.
Members of the Syrian Baath Party branch were spotted loitering around the area earlier in the day.

The government is already arresting people. This spells trouble. They are going to blame it on somebody from the opposition, that's what my gut tells me.

I'll be getting a link to the pics in the next few minutes. A link to the pics is on my blog.

25 Comments:

At Saturday, March 19, 2005 8:25:00 AM, Blogger Rampurple said...

I think we as bloggers also should be really careful about pointing fingers now as well since it really is a sensitive time that can lead to danger.

 
At Saturday, March 19, 2005 11:27:00 PM, Blogger End racism said...

rampurple, what you say is true. It's sad that so many Lebanese carry banners demanding "The Truth" yet they've already decided that their version of events (however unproven) is the truth.

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 1:17:00 AM, Blogger liminal said...

I agree we shouldn't point fingers. And I always have believed the Syrian people are not at fault for the mistakes of their unsavory people inside Lebanon. But we should invesitigate the matter, shouldn't we? I think the fact that a body was found under rubble on the site of the 14 February bombing weeks after it took place shows in the least some mild incompetence regarding the Lebanese government's investigation. So, why not have an international investigation. It violates sovereignty? What sovereignty? The more time that passes whereby an internation investigation is prevented by the current Lebanese government, the more Syria looks culpable.

Right?

Please convince me otherwise.

lim.

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 1:24:00 AM, Blogger End racism said...

"So, why not have an international investigation."

liminal, I'm all for international investigation, but do you really believe that such an investigation would ever point the fingers towards USA/"Israel" if they were the culprits???

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:29:00 AM, Blogger Tempest said...

Marsden. Regardless, Syria has wrecked my country. Regardless, Syria must leave. Regardless, Hizballah must disarm. This crap has gone on for too long. Syria killed Kamal Jumblatt. Syria Killed Sheikh Hasan Khaled. Syria Killed President Bashir Jemayel. Syria Killed President Renee Mouawad. That is fact. One suspects people that have proven they will readily kill to preserve their deathhold. Syria is ruining my country. Syria must leave.

So far, by the way, all the evidence points to Syria and the Lebanese collaborators. Don't you think it's silly to always try to blame US (the great devil) and Israel (the zionist enemy?).

And liminal, I'm sorry to say, my friend, but enough with this 'Syrian government, and not Syrian people'. No one is blaming the Syrian people. God knows they'll be abused by their regime long after Bashar leaves Lebanon. However, let's not go into this issue right now. We can be brotherly and caring as soon as they leave our country, in the meantime, they are an occupation force. Let's no steer from that fact.

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:57:00 AM, Blogger End racism said...

"Regardless, Hizballah must disarm."

Regardless of what??? Hizballah should not disarm. At least not as long as all those Christian militias secretly have weapons stocks. Do you for one second think that the Kata'eb and LF don't have weapons? Surely you must be kidding? Why are you so obsessed with Hezballah? Is it because it makes you uncomfortable that the Muslims have done something for their country and it makes you look very little (because YOU never fought against the "Israeli" occupation)?

"President Bashir Jemayel."

Whose "president"?

"One suspects people that have proven they will readily kill to preserve their deathhold."

That still doesn't PROVE that Syria was behind THIS one.

"So far, by the way, all the evidence points to Syria and the Lebanese collaborators"

What "evidence"? Care to post some?

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:24:00 AM, Blogger liminal said...

marsden...
i already mentioned what i feel about your first comment here. it seems you already assume US/Israel are responsible. That's a very narrow view to take right off-the-bat. It should be an independent investigation, no doubt. How that would be accomplished given the reach of American and Israel in the realm of politics in the Near East is hard to say and I'm not about to address that now. But it is possible. Things about Iraq could have been done better if diplomacy was ever sincere. If we make sure diplomacy has the sincerity needed and the best intentions for the Lebanese people in mind, then it would be truly independent while looking at non-cirmumstantial evidence. I advise us all watch out for Robert Fisk's next reports. It seems something is known that hasn't been revealed officially, so we'll have to wait. And if there's somebody I trust, it's Robert Fisk.

as for your inital comment to rampurple, i don't think it's in the least bit bad to want the truth or "the truth" when it comes to the massacre on 14 Feb. Why are you again implying blame of the US and Israel. And look marsden...I'm not coming from a completely pro-US or pro-Israel background. If you read my personal blog, you'll get the drift.

next.

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:44:00 AM, Blogger liminal said...

Alrighty Tempest,

You might have to read my other comments to understand how I feel about your comments here in full. So, I'm not redundant, you know.

As for all of the deaths you name...I agree that many assassinations in Lebanon were clearly Syria's fault. I don't feel like digging up old matters at the moment, though. Maybe when things settle down. We know the history and that's very relevant to today...but lets not take out our frustration on the SYRIAN PEOPLE. and it's interesting this may be the only assassination to reach some sort of significant level of justice because of all the intense international pressure to have a proper investigation. let's see though. personally, i have the gut feeling that lebanese intelligence had to have been intimately involved with 14 Feb. But until I see hard evidence, I nor any court can prove it.

Again, many of us have that feeling inside, but we dare not blame Syrian people. That is a contemptable stand in my eyes. The beatings and killing of Syrians inside Lebanon must be denounced completely now, and again and again...I'm even more sorry than you my friend, BUT IT DOES NOT (and I HAVE TO lay into you on this one because I believe it is such an irresponsible way to look at things (no offence...again, my opinion))IT DOES NOT make it right to say something like you did here:

"And liminal, I'm sorry to say, my friend, but enough with this 'Syrian government, and not Syrian people'. No one is blaming the Syrian people. God knows they'll be abused by their regime long after Bashar leaves Lebanon."

WHy you ask? Well, plainly, people are blaming ordinary and innocent Syrians in Lebanon. Stop with this "if you're Lebanese you're pure and righteous crap" ...I won't believe it for a second. Sorry ya3ni, I don't mean any offence. But you offended my sensibilites when you spoke in this tone. So, lets re-examine this in the future. I want to have a serious discussion about this matter at LBF. If you do not support such a discussion, then you need not participate. It is not about only Bashar, as you and I know. It is about Syrian and Lebanese intelligence agents. It is about decades of Syrian presence, a war that tore the fabric of Lebanese civil life to shreds, and about that healing process we both spoke of earlier. Don't forget the big picture. Innocent Syrian people are not to be discriminated against in any case. And you seem to imply otherwise here:

" However, let's not go into this issue right now. We can be brotherly and caring as soon as they leave our country, in the meantime, they are an occupation force."

I disagree completely. We absolutely must get into this issue if we want a real and bona fide peace in Lebanon in the future. If you want another 1975-90 then this is the exact attitude that will bring it about.

Let's not steer from the fact that we must avoid sectarian conflict at all costs. If we don't, we'll be killing the future of Lebanon. I am alarmed at the way things are shaping up. Please do not give me more reason for alarm. Let us be civil and let us discuss all topics pertaining to Lebanon's peace. Surely, you agree this is one.

Peace to Rampurple, Tempest, Marsden, and everybody...thank you for your comments. I hope we may continue this in good faith. Have a pleasant day.

:)

liminal

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 1:16:00 PM, Blogger Rampurple said...

I didnt see any of these comments previously! I wish I did!!

Marsden I totally disagree with you... that is not what I meant with my initial comment... my comment wasnt on the feb. 14th event. I DO demand the truth, and I DO think the Syrians should leave, and the Hizbullah should give up their arms but thats irrelevant to this entire post.

My comment was on this post... that we shouldnt be quick to point fingers about the Jdeideh bombing. I believe this bombing was to shake Lebanons security. It was either to threathen the opposition, or it was to start a conflict among the Lebanese. This is why i believe we shouldnt be quick to point fingers.

Peace to Lebanon...

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 1:49:00 PM, Blogger Tempest said...

Ok. I'm not very good in the 'quote your comment and comment on it department'.

I never said we should attack Syrian workers (although I happen to know that there are many Intelligence operators that disguise themselves as such). I never said we should attack the Syrian people either. The acts that are taking place, as bad as they are, are isolated cases. (Two Syrians were murdered. The murders were blames on the opposition, by people like Marsden, then it turned out that one was killed by another Syrian, and the other by some palestinians). I'm not deflecting blame, I'm just saying that the issue is not at the heart of our conversation.

Marsden President Bashir Gemayel was the president of Lebanon. He was one of the true great leaders that came to this country. If you are Lebanese, then he was your president. He was a great, great man who died simply because he told all the foreigners they were not welcome in Lebanon. I guess you're friends the Syrians didn't like that very much.

Liminal again, I don't know what you found so insulting in my comment, however, I AM proud to be Lebanese. To me, it's better than any other nationality. That's a normal sentiment. As for the 100% pure Lebanese thing, please don't pull a queerarab/angryarab thing and start on that. That meant simply that the protest was made up only of Lebanese (pure also means only).

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 1:54:00 PM, Blogger Tempest said...

And Marsden again. This silliness (another of category two arguments in my other comment) that Hizballah now won't disarm because apparently, everyone else in Lebanon is armed to the teeth (I guess no one else knew that) is irrelevant. Here's why: Hizballah has said over and over that their weapons are not used as a militia. That they are a resistance, who's goal is to fight off (Zionism/Imperialism/the rest of the world)... Unless you, and they, are sectarian, and ready to use your weapons against lebanese, it shouldn't really matter to you whether anyone else has weapons or not. Either way, that's a naive and preposterous claim.

Finally, don't bother to pigeon-hole me into one of your narrow views of other Lebanese. I'm a)too big for that, and b) not really into one particular group. So YOU can neither insult me, nor tick me off.

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 4:51:00 PM, Blogger hummbumm said...

Good discussion all. I am not enamored of Bashir Gemayel, we will never know of course what could have been. He was not popular at all with those of us living in West beirut, but it was war, and now we have Jumblatt neeting with Amin Gemayel with Gaega's wife with Aoun and call me an optimist but I believe this reconciliation goes beyond political necessity, but a greater understanding that we are all lebanese. It is amazing how of all sudden everybody has arms in lebanon, if that was the case what the hell were the syrians doing the past 15 years. So let us be clear, nobody in lebanon has a large organized dedicated militia with heavy weaponry like Hizbullah. Nobody!!! That is absolute 100% fact. I do think that the 100% lebanese was in response to syrian busing though i can understand some reticense to that given the past. The attack on syrians in lebanon is deplorable but given the circumstances has in my mind been very limited. Hell more turks get killed by neo nazis in germany in a week. Oh sorry Europeans are so advanced it is only those americans, israelis and lebanese who are rascists or use violence, and only the lebanese who go against pan arabism. Liminal you respect Fisk, I do to but only with regard to Lebanon, however you will see how Fisk readers are beginning to say he was too close to Hariri to Jumblatt because they cannot wrap their heads around the fact that maybe just maybe not all evil committed in the world stems from zionist imperialist plots. the proof is in the pudding, Hariri they say was the Mossad, and Hamade, who knew or cared about Hamade outside the lebanese scene, try blaming hamade on zionist imperialist (not any of you guys, thinking more of the angryarab readership). This is what non lebanese do not get, it is not only Hariri, it is kamal Jumblatt, it is Marwan Hamade, it is rene mouawadd the list goes on and on. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:43:00 PM, Blogger End racism said...

"as for your inital comment to rampurple, i don't think it's in the least bit bad to want the truth or "the truth" when it comes to the massacre on 14 Feb."

Correct, but what I'm saying that it's ironic that the "opposition" protestors who argue that Syria is behind it (when they haven't seen the proof) are the same people holding those banners....

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:50:00 PM, Blogger End racism said...

"Unless you, and they, are sectarian, and ready to use your weapons against lebanese, it shouldn't really matter to you whether anyone else has weapons or not."

It doesn't matter to me. I was stating the argument from the point of view of the (armed) militias calling for Hezballah's disarming............ In other words, they argue that Hezballah is the only "militia" in Lebanon. Well, it's not. So if Hezballah is going to be disarmed because it's a militia (which is their argument, not mine), THEY too should be completely disarmed.

And hummbumm, just because there was an assassination attempt on Hamade doesn't mean Syria is also behind Hariri's assassination...............

So who killed Elie Hobeika? Syria? Palestinians? Why weren't you protesting about THAT? After all, no matter who Hobeika was, isn't assassination of politicians wrong? Or is it wrong only when the finger clearly points to Syria?

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 9:42:00 PM, Blogger hummbumm said...

Well there are some distinguishing characteristics here. You are right i forgot about hobeika. You know there have been so many, i might as well add Rachid Karame. Plus a number of journalists killed for anti syrian commentary. The list is long and sordid about syrian acts in lebanon. Of course not all of them can be attributed to syria but the vast majority.
Hobeika had blood on his hands a lot of blood. So does Jumblatt, but what distinguishes Marwan Hamade, Rene Mouawadd and Hariri is that they were all clean. I specify Hamade because he had no obvious internal enemies, and was not BIG enough for any external elements. His one enemy was Syria as Hamade voted against Lahoud extension and is a close ally to Jumblatt. Plus bonus his wife is French so that was a message to the french. You know I am honestly not sure who killed hobeika. The others are more clear, more obvious. You are right I have no proof it is syria on hariri, but there are a lot of signs and the attempt on hamade is one of them in my books. It is called strong circumstantial evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt maybe not, but i think i would win in civil court

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:24:00 PM, Blogger liminal said...

Super, everyone came back...

I'm glad I didn't scare anybody away.

So, I glanced over all the comments...and I have a quick one for Marsden. But first, I don't mean anything personal against you.

You are English. And you support Hizbullah...you even hope to join it.

Ok. Well, you remind me of those "Tourist adventure" people that would come from all over the West to come and join a militia in Lebanon and shoot people during the civil war.

Just wonderful.

I'll have more later maybe.

Peace to Lebanon

lim.

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:52:00 PM, Blogger End racism said...

"You are right i forgot about hobeika. You know there have been so many, i might as well add Rachid Karame. Plus a number of journalists killed for anti syrian commentary."

Why would Syria kill Hobeika a day after he said he would testify against Sharon???????

"You are English. And you support Hizbullah...you even hope to join it.
Ok. Well, you remind me of those "Tourist adventure" people that would come from all over the West to come and join a militia in Lebanon and shoot people during the civil war."

Well, a few comments in reply to that:

1) I am English but I am also a Lebanese citizen.

2) I would never kill any Lebanese.

3) I have lived all my life in Lebanon, so I don't come from the West. My one and only home country is Lebanon.

So you are quite mistaken about me and my motives.

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:56:00 PM, Blogger End racism said...

By the way, the ones you are talking about were Irish (not English), they were from the Irish Republican Army.

As for the MNF, they were regular troops, not militias / guerrillas.

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:42:00 PM, Blogger Tempest said...

Dan, good luck joining Hizballah.
The rest of you, good luck arguing with this guy. Personally, I believe that ignorance should be educated, and not debated. So, there. I'm off!

 
At Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:55:00 PM, Blogger Written on the Wall said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At Monday, March 21, 2005 12:02:00 AM, Blogger Written on the Wall said...

Tempest ya khayyee, shoo bek? Ya3nee ma baddak enno ne7kee shwayy walla shoo? Kell wa7ad 3ando 3a2yo w enta baddak tghayyer hayda 7atta el kell y2ool ennak mesh ghaltan? Walla, a7san iza ballasht ma3mal robot.

 
At Monday, March 21, 2005 12:22:00 AM, Blogger hummbumm said...

You mean Marsden is the Dan from AngryArab? Doh I feel like in Aliens when you bring back one to the mothership. I have to say he is a bit more reasonable on this blog. I did not say the syrians killed hobeika, it may well have been the israelis cause they stood to benefit. But using that logic, let us run through the list of other names I mentioned, who stood to benefit there? Syria. Et voila.

 
At Monday, March 21, 2005 12:29:00 AM, Blogger Written on the Wall said...

Yeah Marsden is Dan from Angry Arab.

I am just curious as to how you think Syria benefited from Hariri's assassination though.

 
At Monday, March 21, 2005 12:49:00 AM, Blogger hummbumm said...

Syria as a country obviously not, but I don't look at the syrian leadership as a government but more as the mafia, and lebanon is where the big bucks are for well connected syrians and lebanese (security services). I think when a hammer has worked for you in the past, and all you got is a hammer, well everything looks like a nail. I mean look at lahoud and gang, they are still hoping to ride this out, and I am sure they did not think this would be the reaction. I mean why was Lahoud's mandate extended. It was very unpopular and not good for syria at all, brought about 1559, but syria mafia insisted to protect its relationships with lebanese security mafia, so it had to be lahoud and nobody else. They benefit because now who is the natural leader of the opposition. Jumblatt is tainted with his past and he is druze, the christians can always be painted as western and not true arabs, so Hariri was the key because there was no other sunni of stature. I am sure they were dismissive of his sister who is proving very forceful. My conviction is bolstered by past actions, a long list of assasinations in lebanon with syria's imprint. Unlike a court of law i do bring in prior acts. Plus i mean 30 days after the assasination and the government says nothing, this al qaeda link that no one believes, what happened to that, gone, bah, nothing, nothing, so the security heads should be sacked for incompetence to say the least. Now the last explosion in Jdeideh, and calls for unity, the same old game, unity ie. status quo, ie. we stay in power. People see what happened in lebanon and then retrospectively assume, syria did not benefit, but of course at the time who would have predicted a million lebanese in the streets? they took a risk and thought it would turn out just like in the past, and they were wrong. The US assumed cakewalk in Iraq, and no insurrection and look what happened, it is quite likely that the syrians thought this would blow over, and they were wrong as well.

 
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