Will they break Lebanon? How shall we prevent this from happening?
I'm afraid Syria will cause problems inside Lebanon that will lead to them "justifying" their stay. This was my initial reaction to the fateful day of 14 February. Now I revert back to this initial reaction. How can we prevent this from happening?
I want to feel as though Lebanon is united. But I don't. A Lebanese opinion is somewhat like a snowflake, and I'm afraid the negative forces of Syrian intelligence and government (NOT the Syrian people) shall try to capitalize on this.
I was watching Al Jazeera earlier today. Dr. Asad AbuKhalil was on an interesting panel with men only ( I wonder why men only). There were some interesting views exchanged about whether or not it mattered that Lebanon was under Syrian or American control. The dear professor said that Lebanon has never had independence...and it has always been controlled by one party or another. I wonder if anybody else saw this debate. I think we need more of these debates on both television, in schools, and community centers...though we need them to include as many women as men. Sure, they may end up in screaming matches. But it's most healthy to get the anger out in constructive ways, rather than using violence.
On the subject of 'breaking Lebanon' something comes to mind. Neil MacFarquhar, an excellent reporter for the Times, writes this article. You might want to check it out. Here's a taster:
After a few moments, he leaned forward and described how the Syrian leader had threatened him, curtly ordering him to amend Lebanon's Constitution to give President Émile Lahoud, the man Syria used to block Mr. Hariri's every move, another three years in office.
"Bashar told him, 'Lahoud is me,' " Mr. Jumblatt recalled in an interview. "Bashar told Hariri: 'If you and Chirac want me out of Lebanon, I will break Lebanon.' " He was referring to the French president, Jacques Chirac.
Peace,
liminal
posted by liminal @ 12:53 AM
6 Comments:
As an American I would like to tell you how uplifted and excited we were to see the sea of flags & people. To be forever vigilent is the cost of democracy.
God Bless Lebanon ,
Grace be with you all...
HO HO, What a nice thing to provoke!
What's up with you two? Why are you arguing???
Okay, one thing at a time. And I'm sorry...I won't take sides. I've lived my own experiences and I have my own opinions. And I will not compromise them for anybody. So here's my take.
1) "Isn't Lebanon broken already?"
-ok, you're for an international investigation? but it seems you've already decided who's at fault. and it's not syria. right? first, i know lebanon is broken m. and the destruction is at the level of what's imperceptible. the war was long and the war was violent. i don't like war. i don't like when people kill each other. it's wrong, it's disgusting and it needs to end. all occupations need to end. you're palestinian so you understand exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not sure what your background is in relation to Palestine, but I can tell you have a deep attachment to it and that's good enough reason for me to believe that you can actually relate to people inside Lebanon that are tired of Syria's presence. how are we so far?
2) -"Can you not see something wrong with the whole thing? Sure, the whole romanticised "revolution" is all nice and dandy, but is it real or is it a SHOW?"
Okay, this idea makes me laugh more than anything. The fact that everybody besides the Lebanese who want Syria out feel that it's a show is ridiculous. There y0u are making assumptions again. You again seem to imply it is a show with your rhetorical question. Well, you're wrong. It's not a show. It's for real. And you're in denial along with many others. I do see something wrong with the whole thing. I do see something wrong with the Hizbullah organized protest, too. Listen friend, I have a Shia friend that's in the Lebanese Army that went to the protest. If you think that's not for real, go to Beirut one day when I'm there and I'll let you meet his family.
3) the issue of the party flags -- this one's easy in my eyes. i'm sorry the opposition's protest was not as heavily restricted as the hizbullah one. it is known for a fact (and i'll find the source) that hizbullah specifically told all protesters not to bring their famous yellow flag to the protest. they were taken from people that brought them. so, sorry. i don't care about party flags. we know who's got more discipline...and it's not the lebanese opposition. and if you try to even tell me that the hizbullah protest was more diverse than the last opposition protest, you don't know lebanon. i am not saying hizbullah does not represent a substantial proportion of lebanese. it does now and so it must be respected. but so must 1 million people that came into the streets 14 March. i'm sure you agree with me.
I will address each post...let me put this up and move to the next comment.
Thank you for participating marsden, I hope you'll continue to do so.
Tempest,
Ok, lebanon is a democracy...true. It's an imperfect one. But I think it's the most democratic and open state in the Near East ...even though Syrians are still operating from there and the government is completely corrupt and basically appointed there by Assad through threats. When it comes to Lebanese politics, nobody's hands are completely clean. Let's be frank. But if there was a man that did not have a militia, it was Hariri. In other words, he didn't have blood on his hands. (and that's good enough for me to demend an independent international investigation that the US or Israel does not have a hand in...) and as many people know, he was also an ally of Syria's for a long long time. the fact that he turned on syria in the past year, was forced to resign, and then was assassinated does not add up. I hate when people try to deny he had very warm relations with Syria. It simply isn't the case. Don't be ignorant... don't try to deny it. I respect the man for what he accomplished. And it is truly a tragedy for him, his family, basil fuleihan (who's a good friend of a close friend) and his family. And that should be all that I need to say about that. For so many in the current Lebanese government and Syrian government to act like this was some random crime is criminal in and of itself. And SHAME on Lebanon's government for finding remains of a body weeks after the crime was committed. IT SMACKS OF A COVER-UP. I'm just adding everything up and giving you my honest gut feeling.
Boy, I went on there...sorry.
Ok Tempest...sorry friend but a couple of protests doesn't mean Lebanon is not broken still. It's a very important step, no doubt. We are on the path of healing for sure. But it is not a matter of the past. People are still getting over the war including myself and many people in my family. So, don't try to convince me otherwise. It will seem disingenious to me and I'll never buy it. One of the main reasons it is broken is because you had people (most literally) in the same family killing each other...I'm talking brothers killing brothers (and I'm NOT talking Lebanese brotherhood, like you and me...I'm talking hereditary brothers, my friend). You can try to deny that too, but you will never convince me. If you knew me better I could tell you real-life stories about this if you have never heard of it before. So, you are completely correct when you say "We are in the process of healing our country." That's exactly right. It's a process and we are still in it.
I love you commmenting on this topic Tempest, thank you. Please, let's continue. ;)
let me move on to the next...
empowerqueen, thank you for your thoughts. we need it in this very difficult time. my thoughts are with you and yours.
;)
Ok marsden, your next comment.
First, I appreciate your pointed comments that help induce some emotion. Now, I think you must admit there was more broad participation at the last opposition protest than the one organized by a single party, Hizbullah. And if Hizbullah didn't have such great organization, there could have not been such a huge protest that was for Syria. On the other hand, it was organized by them...so it was more homogenous of faith and affiliation. Thus, less diverse. So in fairness to tempest...it was indeed more of an alliance of parties than hizbullah's. and if you want hizbullah to stay armed and functioning as a militia inside lebanon, then you must allow other lebanese to give their voice about it if it truly is a democracy. right? 500,000 Hizbullah supporters is not chop-liver...but numbers estimate possibly two-times as many people coming out to the last opposition protest...so, that's more. and if 2 to 1 people in a democracy say that hizbullah should disarm, then they should disarm if it's a democracy. right?
Also in fairness to tempest, he is not delusional in my eyes. Just because he's on the opposite side of the political spectrum does not mean his opinion doesn't count. heck, he likes bush...i don't. but i tolerate his opinion. you should too. i know how that sounds to you, but it's better to engage with people...seriously, i think it's to the benifit of everybody reading here for us to have this debate online. and i tolerate your opinions as much as tempest's. i think it's awesome to have a diversity of views in one place. so again, tempest is not delusional.
You go on to say this: "You need to check your facts on how the war started and who the main players were." Every side seems to have a different version of "how the war started" and I wondered what your version was. Let's get that straight first, then we'll move on with that line in the discussion. As much as it is wrong to be of the attitude that Palestinians are to blame for everything, it is also wrong to say that they are to blame for nothing. I want to make my opinion clear on that matter because it is very complicated...both personally and on a larger scale. So, I want to hear your version...then I'll address this issue further.
Then you go on with this: "Healing? What kind of healing is that when the Maronites consider themselves too good to have Muslims as their neighbours (and want to divide the country into Muslim and Christian states [federalism])???" And you do this regretablly so...I'm sorry marsden, but you're as guilty as those Christians that you speak of when pointing it out in this manner. Why do you make so many assumptions? I am from a Christian family. Are you assuming all Christians are like this? THis is both deeply offensive and i don't take people implying i'm a racist to well. so either speak with more tolerance or expect the wrath of me.
And then this: "National? If you consider waving the Lebanese flag nationalism, then sure. Patriotic? Hardly."
Look, when did anybody sing the national anthem at the hizbullah organized protest? Sorry, but they were singing hizbullah war songs. Screw that. I never heard one account of anybody in that protest singing the lebanese national anthem. and sure, you'll say that's not the lebanon that they are proud of...whatever. there is a thing of being proud to be lebanese...and personally, hearing the national anthem makes me proud. however weak lebanon is, we all know what that air smells like in the mountains and from the sea. we all are bound by the cultural experience that is being lebanese. granted, there are many underpriveleged people both born and brought into lebanon at one time or another. i think it should be the job of more and more lebanese to grant more rights to these individuals. some are treated less than human and that isn't right. even animals are....one time i was in a formerly armenian neighborhood in lebanon last year and there was some sri lankan department store that had a leapord in a very small cage. one meter by one meter...i took a bunch of pictures to send to animal rights organizations. well, true, the individual's rights need to be protected first and foremost. but my point is that lebanon is an ancient place that is not immune to the problems of modernity. we must help those that suffer in lebanon to achieve their full rights. but it doesn't mean i shouldn't be proud to be Lebanese? Are you not proud to be Palestinian? And what of Palestinian nationhood? It is more fragmented than Lebanese nationhood. And I know you agree with me there.
So?
Don't make so many assumptions about me, my family, and Christian Lebanese. It won't get you far in a Lebanese forum, believe me.
lim.
Lim... see what I mean?!
This blog is BEGGING for a debate!
As for the Tempest/Marsden conflict (escalating and spreading over 2 posts), I think that you 2 should just abandon the idea that you will ever see eye-to-eye. In all fairness, Tempest you do your best to defend and support your arguments, while Marsden you seem to fire off old and tired one-liners and state them as indisputable facts. You don't listen, which makes it very frustrating.
I love free speech, but this round seems like it's going nowhere...
Post a Comment
<< Home